“Torn and Frayed” Discussion
Supernatural is back! New episode tonight at 9pm, so post your thoughts. Click HERE for my full recap.
Hooray for mythology! I love it when the show adds more layers to is ongoing story, and season 8 got a nice boost for the second half with some major new elements.
First, there’s an Angel Tablet! Of course there is, and now Crowley can go on the offensive, trying to find it to destroy Heaven once and for all. Although I have to admit, the fact that God would create a blueprint for everything about angels and Heaven is kind of short-sighted, like building a Death Star where one well-placed shot could destroy the whole thing.
Also, Samandriel’s comment about “they’re controlling us” perked up my ears. Does this mean Naomi isn’t really an angel? Is she some uber-bad, unknown creature that is controlling the angels? Maybe I’ve been watching too much American Horror Story: Asylum this season, but my first thought was that she’s an alien. But I’m sure that’s not it.
This was also a great episode for ending those annoying distractions from the first half of the year. Benny and Amelia both got the boot, though I doubt it’s permanent, at least for Benny. Still, I’m always happy to see “bros over hos” win out in the end.
This was everything I want from a mid-season premiere, chock full of big mythology elements to push the big season 8 story arc forward. I can’t wait to find out what Naomi is and what’s written on the Angel Tablet. Let’s just hope Dean learns to control his laptop pop-ups in the future.
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When will this come out in New Zealand?
Comment by Zoe — January 16, 2013 @ 6:06 pm
In NC the CW showed a Georgia basketball game insread of the premieres of Arrow and Supernatural. Im pissed. They have been advertising for days and now i dont get to see either for at least two weeks cause next week is the same a Georgia basketball game. Whats the deal!
Comment by Amy — January 16, 2013 @ 6:56 pm
In NC the CW showed a Georgia basketball game instead of the premieres of Arrow and Supernatural. Im pissed. They have been advertising for days and now i dont get to see either for at least two weeks cause next week is the same a Georgia basketball game. Whats the deal!
Comment by Amy — January 16, 2013 @ 6:57 pm
well that episode ended well.
Comment by damn — January 16, 2013 @ 7:01 pm
The only part I liked was the end. Bye, Amelia. I hope you never return to bore me again!
Her relationship with Sam was terminally boring and a complete waste of time.
Oh, and I felt really bad for Benny. Dean did him wrong!
Comment by Lisa1 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:09 pm
I loved this episode until the last five minutes. Yes it’s great Sam made the decision on his own, but Dean ditching Benny (the only one that never let him down) for Sam was awful. Why did he have to do that? Because Sam was jealous? Because Dean can’t have a friend? Because he’s a vampire? Wasn’t Sam the one that advocated supernatural doesn’t necessarily mean evil?
Or was it that, because Sam had to make a sacrifice to hunt so did Dean. That Benny wasn’t making any demands or sacrifices from Dean or giving ultimatums how is that fair? Sam had no right to make that ultimatum in the first place.
Comment by Haley 56 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:13 pm
Dean and Benny had agreed to go their separate ways in the first place. I guess Dean felt since Sam was giving up Amelia, to keep the peace he gave up Benny. Don’t like it, but that’s the crap the writers gave us.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:13 pm
Awesome frickin episode. Bye bye and good for Sam right choice finally. and finally the angel tablet makes its self known. The Benny thing kinda sucks but Sam and Dean kicking back aint so bad. Loved this ep.
Comment by AW — January 16, 2013 @ 7:15 pm
that was a good episode-i actually liked the angel story-too much of samandriel screaming though;. my wtf- DEAN man-you did benny wrong. i new benny’s time was up. hopefully amelia is gone for good now too. both brothers had balls this week-made thier case-at first i rolled my eyes that dean was once again apologizing but-it turned out great being he walked out on sam. and dean was the one who gave sam the ulimatum at the end. so good episode. fast paced-not mushy-gave every fan something they wanted to see.
Comment by animal — January 16, 2013 @ 7:16 pm
Wasn’t there mention of the angel tablet before or was that just fan talk?
Felt bad for Samandriel though. Poor guy.
I guess Castiel is going to have to be reprogrammed……again!
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:27 pm
AW-sam story is real. you were right about cas though. half a gloat!! lol.
Comment by animal — January 16, 2013 @ 7:29 pm
Supernatural characters don’t just go away…I think Amelia returns but God I hope I’am wrong.
Comment by ozzie — January 16, 2013 @ 7:34 pm
I found the brothers’ relationship stuff pretty unsatisfying. Looks like instead of expanding the SPNverse, Carver has just contracted it back to the same old Sam and Dean against the world, with zero resolution to anything that has been shown this season.
Let’s see. Sam gives Dean an ultimatum. Dean doesn’t fall for it and walks away. Amelia asks Sam for a long-term affair on the side, and Sam has to think about that. Before he decides, Cas brings the two back together and they fight like the old ‘team’ they were.
The Cas story comes into play, leaving Dean without Cas when Cas follows Naomi’s orders.
Dean kisses Benny off — completely OOC for Dean, as he is nothing if not loyal to his friends — and I have no idea why he did it. Looks like the writers are stuck on that treadmill of if one brother does something, the other one has to do the same thing.
So, Dean doesn’t have Cas and Benny and Sam doesn’t have Amelia. We’re back to Sam and Dean against the world with absoluely no explanation or resolution to anything that has been shown this season.
Is Amelia really gone? If so, that was a completely unsatisfactory ending to a really crappy story that’s been dominating the series for two months…and it meant nothing to the show or the season.
And, once again, Dean apologizes to Sam for something — not sure what it was — but no apology from Sam to Dean for anything.
Totally unsatisfying with regard to the brothers. I’ll think about the rest of the episode before commenting, but I don’t think there’s really much to talk about there. I think we all had already guessed there was an angel tablet.
Here’s half of a peace sign, Carver.
Comment by Sheri — January 16, 2013 @ 7:40 pm
@Sheri
Apology for what? Some fans just want to give Sam crap no matter what. I mean what the flying fuck do you want the guy to do? He chooses his brother over his own happiness and you still blame him. Isn’t that what you wanted? Putting everything aside for his brother is what he just did. I mean they both forgave each other so why are people still bitching? I guess some fans don’t want the brothers to be together at all, they just want to hate one of them and glorify the other. Sam DESERVED an apology and to say he didn’t is just sick.
Comment by Mo — January 16, 2013 @ 7:44 pm
@Sheri
If you don’t think making your brother think someone he loves was dead to get him out of the way, I can’t help you. It disturbs me that some people don’t see an issue with that and as for Sam apart from trusting Martin I don’t see what he did wrong. I don’t really see the point to the wars though. They forgave each other and they chose family. Get over it people. Move on. I believe in forgiving the people you love. Winchester brothers together again.
Comment by Sara — January 16, 2013 @ 7:49 pm
Sam didn’t give Amelia up for Dean. He gave Amelia up because there are seemingly more important things going on that could mean a shit load of trouble for the entire world. Again. And besides, Amelia is not “his” to give up. She is still married to Don isn’t she? So not the grand love story I imagined for Sam.
And Sheri, you’re right. A band-aid was placed on all the crap that has been going on. Nothing was resolved. Rinse and repeat. Maybe two episodes from now, we’ll get the same damn contrive angst again because nothing was resolved. Whatever.
I’m just going to concentrate on the myth arc.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:52 pm
So,uh, the dead can now send text messages?
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 7:54 pm
You guys do realize they only have a limited amount of time in an episode right? They can’t spend 15 minutes talking about “their feelings.” And characters don’t always have to say something, what a character DOESN’T say is important too. I know ladies love drama and stirring shit up, but these are MEN we’re talking about. I don’t need to see a soap opera. Also, if you seriously think Sam didn’t give Amelia up for dean, you DEFINITELY misunderstand the character and the entire show in general.
Comment by Lilli — January 16, 2013 @ 7:56 pm
@stone
Oh you’re right I’m so sorry. I’ll answer your condescending message here. Making someone believe someone you love is in TROUBLE in ANY way shape or form is wrong. I’m sorry you actually believe that is okay. I mean Sam’s a hunter, think about what happened to Jess and all the people he has loved. Sam’s mind would be racing. I find it disgusting people shove that under the rug having had personal experience with that horror.
Comment by Sara — January 16, 2013 @ 8:02 pm
@ animal half a gloat is better than no gloat at all, right. What the hell I will take being wrong about Samelia if it really is over. But, yes there is a but, I would have liked to for once see amelia interact with someone besides just Sam but as long as its over I am good. Then again what is up with this don guy. He travels alot since he has been back really does this seem suspicious to anyone else. Back from the dead spending lots of time alone. hmmm vampire maybe.
Comment by AW — January 16, 2013 @ 8:02 pm
After watching the show for the last eight years, yeah I don’t get the characters at all.
I don’t wear rose colored glasses when it comes to the characters. I can see the good the bad and the in-betweens and still manage to love them without attributing things to them that are not there.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:03 pm
AW - who cares? Let’s just be happy that Amelia is gone, and let’s hope she stays gone!
Comment by Lisa1 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:05 pm
I thought this episode was very good. I think why Dean decided that Benny and him were finished, was as he told Sam - you can’t have your feet in both places, because if you try you will get hurt. If Benny calls Dean, then Dean goes running to him, but Dean also is supposed to be trying to close the gates of Hell. Dean had to make a decision as to what he should do and he chose to stay and try to close the gates of Hell with Sam. Sam also decided to leave Amelia (she may be married to Don, but she could always have gotten a divorce) to also fight with Dean and get the gates of Hell closed. Also I’m sure Sam was thinking that if he stayed with her maybe something would have happened to her and she would have died and it would be better to leave her and have her live. Afterall Sam doesn’t have a good track record of his girlfriends living for long.
Comment by valerie — January 16, 2013 @ 8:08 pm
Sam has always been able to decide, even when he would wish to do otherwise, that he can’t sit by and let the world go to shit. Does having Dean there reinforce that desire, yes. But he’s doing what needs to be done because it’s the right thing to do.
Saving Kevin, or heck even going on every single little hunt that popped up, yes I can understand him deciding to let some one else take care of it. But he can tell this thing with Cas is the big league and like it or not him and Dean are the most qualified to handle it. So I was not expecting him to go off in lala land with Amelia when something as big as this was in the works. So if that makes me not understand the character, I’m ok with that.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:09 pm
You can still love them while understanding they have faults, flaws, and screw up. But like I said, it’s all behind us, I just wanted them to get past it. Not to go on for 30 minutes about it. You just forgive the ones you love. Holding on to that stuff will just make you bitter and spiteful (not saying anyone is on here) but you just got to get over stuff. Life is too short. I’m just saying that move by Dean was not right but he redeemed himself.
Whatever I just wanted them to forgive each other and back together. I don’t care how it happened or who said what. Hopefully that’s done with.
Comment by Sara — January 16, 2013 @ 8:10 pm
If you folks don’t see anything wrong with Sam’s actions this season, there is not sense in discussing what is actually going on in the show. You’re seeing Sam as that cute little college kid from S1, and those days have passed by half a decade. Sam done no wrong. Amen. That’s all you’ve got.
Amelia was asking Sam to be a long-term adulterer, and Sam, seeing that there is trouble on the horizon with Crowley, decided to be responsible for the first time in a year and a half and stick around. He wasn’t choosing Dean for a damned thing.
And I have no idea why Dean would give up one of his moral boundaries — loyalty to a friend — to kiss Benny off. Perhaps he smells trouble on the horizon with Cas, but that was not made clear in this episode. Perhaps he did it to keep little Sammy happy, but that wasn’t made clear either.
Basically, this episode did not move anything forward — not the myth arc and not any of the issues between the brothers. Anybody with a brain cell already knew (a) there is a demon tablet, (b) there are many tablets, and (c) if there is a demon tablet and if there are many tablets, then, of course, there was an angel tablet. The episode simply told us what we already knew.
And this episode certainly had no resolutions to anything to do with the brothers. It basically constricted the SPNverse back to being just Sam and Dean. Dean can’t depend on Cas and he kissed Benny off. Dean as Sam. Sam kissed Amelia off. For the time being, Sam has Dean. Yet, both Amelia and Sam still want to be together to do the long-term adulterer thing behind Don’s back (because he travels a lot), and I expect that they will do just that in the future. I don’t think we’re done with Amelia, unfortunately.
The episode wasn’t bad, but there was no drama in it. There was a lot of Alfie screaming and being tortured to get around to telling us what we already knew. Crowley got away…again. Naomi is controlling Cas, which we already knew. It didn’t move the story forward, and it took the brothers right back to where they have been for years.
I didn’t dislike the episode, but I was totally unsatisfied with it.
Comment by Sheri — January 16, 2013 @ 8:14 pm
I’ve had experience with someone doing that to me to . . . and correcting you on a false statement doesn’t translate into sweeping what Dean did under the rug.
I always say put things in context.
The only reason Dean sent that text is because Sam left him bleeding, unconscious and handcuffed in a hotel room and when he came to he used the best weapon he had. Was it a nice move, no. But neither was what Sam did. I’ve never excused what Dean did, just that I understood why he did it.
And speaking of disgusting, I find it disgusting that people swept the fact that Sam left an unconscious Dean in that hotel room while he went on a witch hunt. Apparently a scared Sam is more important than a potential concussed Dean. To each their own.
And my message was sarcastic, not condescending. Unfortunately, I do allow this trait to get the best of me at times and for that I apologize. I could have phrase my comment better.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:21 pm
@Sara…apparently I write very slowly so my last message was sent before reading your last one. The apology still stand, everything else can be ignored.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:26 pm
Oh, I will add that I know find Dean totally unsympathetic. He’s a doormat for Sam. He likes being a doormate for Sam. It’s his choice to be a doormat for Sam. He gave up on his most basic moral — loyalty for Sam. As far as I am concerned at this point, he deserves to only have Sam in his life.
Further, if Benny falls off the blood wagon, kills humans, and Dean has to kill him, then that’s Dean’s fault. Dean has basically left Benny without a support system.
At this point, though, I am seeing Benny as just another character who would suck the life out of Dean. Benny’s character is at the point of being used only to make demands for Dean’s help. He’s no better than Sam about making demands on Dean. What a disappointment in what started out to be a super neat character.
Comment by Sheri — January 16, 2013 @ 8:28 pm
Unfortunately, someone came in and started a conversation with me right at the part where Dean was speaking with Benny. I’m going to have to wait and watch the episode on ON-Demand for that portion.
I feel for Benny and it’s a let down how that relationship ended (although I doubt that it did) but again, the deal was that they would go there separate ways.
I feel that Dean telling him he’s not going to make it is two fold.
I don’t like it, but I don’t see it as him being a doormat for doing it. If the two (Sam and Dean) are going to work together to get to the bottom of what’s going on, than there must be peace. So I understand him not going off to help Benny. I may change my mind once I know exactly what Benny needed Dean for. It looks like he is running low on blood and maybe he has no money?
I hope Benny doesn’t go dark. Even if they kill him off, I hope he dies a good guy.
Comment by Stone120 — January 16, 2013 @ 8:37 pm
So many thoughts. First off… Cas watches Dean sleep XD and can recognize his serious face. That struck me as adorable. Ugh I could rant about this episode forever. Poor Cas! Poor Benny! Poor Samandriel!Good ridence Amelia!
Comment by CastielGreenHeart — January 16, 2013 @ 9:08 pm
In the first few minutes of the episode- for the first time EVER on this show- I Hated Sam. Fortunately- as my husband quickly pointed out- I am fully aware that he is not Jared! The Horrible writing and character assasination of one part of the heart and soul of the show this season has been so nauseating I almost switched the channel when Sam was on-screen.
The Sam-Amelia story is one of the worst things that has ever happened on this show. It served no purpose except to turn one of the main characters into a total ass. And it resolved nothing at the “end” of the relationship. Just showed me-that according to the lousy writers- Sam had no problem committing adualtry and would gladly have dumped his brother to run off with a cheating wife.
Sorry..that is NOT Sam.
And now it is supposed to be “resolved” and done with? Really? Sam doesn’t spend a second to look for his brother and then- when his brother is miraculously returned to life- he treats him like a crappy doormat and takes everyone and everything over him. And that is supposed to just be over now?
And the only way to bring about this “return to brotherly love” is for Dean to turn his back on the man who got him out of purgatory? Really? Cold turkey a vampire who calls for help? Dean? Really? WTF?!
Cas was good in this episode. And so was the screaming kid who looks ALOT like Tom Cruise. Crowley was- as always- an irritating bore. Kevin was ok and I am glad he sent his wacky Mother away. Not quite sure what all the “mother” talk was with Dean but I guess it was supposed to mean something about sacrificing for the greater good.
The scene at the end with the boys sitting together drinking beer and watching tv should have been there from the very first episode. Instead the idiots running the show wasted all these episodes- for Nothing.
They introduce characters and then drop them cold with no true resolvement to their storyline. What happens to Benny now? Does he live happily ever after? Does he go on a feeding rampage and the Winchesters have to come and hunt him down? The way this episode was written it does look like the only way Sam came back to Dean was because Dean told Benny “adios”. What crap.
Do we get an explanation on why Sam has been an ass this whole season? A RATIONAL explanation please not some fangirl reasoning.
Nope. This will all be swept under the rug and we are supposed to be Oh So Happy the boys are “back together” that we don’t care.
Sorry- as a fan of the two main characters and of the show- I do care. And I do want answers as to why these fools writing the show wrote Sam to be an ass and what the whole crappy soap-opera story was all about.
I know there never will be a rational reason written into the show. Just another sign of how this show is dying with each passing season.
Sad. The fans and the characters and the actors deserve so much better.
Comment by SL — January 16, 2013 @ 9:40 pm
@SL
Probably due to your Dean goggles. Don’t worry it’s a common problem around here.
Comment by Li — January 16, 2013 @ 9:59 pm
Was anyone else annoyed by the fact that this was basically a Cas episode? Sure they dealt with the brothers and had them forgive each other, but everything else was Cas, Cas, Crowley, Benny. Blah blah blah. It’s pretty sad when I only care about 10 minutes of an episode.
Comment by Sara — January 16, 2013 @ 10:08 pm
Why some fans want Dean to cut Sam out of his life and basically become John Winchester is beyond me? I rather predicted the Sam haters on here would be pissed if the brothers got back together, but really it’s ridiculous. Holding grudges never gets you anywhere and that’s apparently what some of you want Dean to do. I don’t get it. DO you REALLY hate Sam that much? I guess so. I also hope a lot of you don’t feel that way in real life. It’s like nothing is ever enough and nothing is every good enough. If you hate Sam to the point where he never does anything right, just say it already. I’m so sick of the bias. By the way, even Carver has said that Dean is not going to look good this season make bad choices this season. What does that tell you of your perception of Dean?
Comment by O — January 16, 2013 @ 10:16 pm
@SL
I wouldn’t be surprised if you did take it out on the actor. Who knows maybe you’re the freak sending death threats to him and his baby. You implied it not me.
Comment by Miii — January 16, 2013 @ 10:33 pm
I have never loathed a character more than I do Sam Winchester after tonight’s episode. Carver, you have disappointed me severely.
Comment by Nico — January 16, 2013 @ 10:53 pm
@ Li#33, O #35, Miii #36: Obviously, you are the type of viewers the writers are catering to or are only capable of writing for. The commenters that were not satisfied with this episode are people like me who wanted and, as fans with more than one brain cell, deserved resolutions to the conflicts set up since the beginning of the season.
New characters with significant impact on both brothers were introduced and nothing came from those stories. In the end, the only thing that came from it is that everybody is miserable: Dean is with Sam, and Dean is miserable. Sam is with Dean, and Sam is miserable. Benny is out of Purgatory, and Benny is miserable. Amelia is back with her husband, and Amelia is miserable. The problem is that the fans got no answers as to why for any of the angst and teenage handwringing that has gone on for nine episodes.
What we got is Cas’ story introduced and Sam and Dean back together with NO resolution to age old problems, which means NO CHARACTER GROWTH.
The complaints about this episode don’t have a damned thing to do with Sam versus Dean, as you indicate. It’s juvenile to even think that. What they do have something to do with is decent storytelling and decent writing; not using an old recipe with half the ingredients on hand.
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 3:06 am
More fighting here, as I’ve come to expect. But never mind. Personally, I’m wondering how the writers can possibly get Sam and Dean to work out their issues by talking when an episode is only 40 minutes long. They’d have to spend an entire episode with them just being in the same room expressing their feelings… and even then, 40 minutes wouldn’t be long enough, so it would likely stretch into a whole arc of episodes. Then, of course, some viewers would complain about how tedious it is that all the boys do is talk about how they’ve done wrong and how they need to work out their issues and forgive each other and learn to accept each other as brothers, men and human beings. They’d say, “Jeezus, they’re brothers for crying out loud, real brothers don’t talk like that!” On the flipside, there would be those who would say it is out of character for the “no chick flick” boys to talk so openly with each other, even if it’s a five-minute scene where they acknowledge that they need to work out their issues and forgive each other and learn to accept each other as brothers, men and human beings. And cue the bitching. Is there ANY real way for the writers to satisfy all the fans? I don’t think so.
Anyway. I liked the episode immensely and am surprisingly intrigued by the Angel storyline, which I was NOT expecting to be at all!
To @SL, I’m sorry you feel the show is dying, but that is, respectfully, only your opinion based on your perception. (And hey, Season 8 in particular is about perception, no?) I’ve loved the show from day 1, and feel that that this season, it has bounced back from the 7-year itch. I hope the show finds a way to make you become a fan again, as it has for me this season; but I fear in doing so, it’s just going to make other viewers unhappy and claim the writers/producers are fools.
Sheri, I find it rather insulting that you write “fans with more than one brain cell” as there are many out there, such as myself, who are entirely satisfied with the way those storylines were resolved (if, indeed, they have truly been resolved; the writers have left the doors wide open for more to come, particularly in the case of Benny). So the implication there is that I am, therefore, NOT a fan with more than one brain cell, huh? Oh well. That’s okay, you were obviously writing from a very emotional place, which I guess is perfectly warranted given that you are clearly a devoted fan who wants what’s best for this show. But what one fan wants, as I’ve said above, would not be what another fan does. So round and round it goes.
Peace and love to all!
Comment by nickmaniac — January 17, 2013 @ 3:59 am
Loved the ending. Otherwise the guys being zapped around once again as mere muscle by Castiel for his latest angel war was pretty dreadful and so repetitive stuff. Was thinking throughout that the only new or original content of the episode worth watching was Sam/Amelia–and that was crap. Redemption occurred in the last few minutes when Dean, before he knew Sam’s decision, made the adult decision that, with or without Sam, his future was not going to be partnering with a vampire. Meanwhile Sam apparently decided that the Sam Winchester we’ve all known for seven-plus seasons was not going to end up as a morally corrupt man devoted to motel trysts with another man’s wife. And, both decided that friend or foe, Castiel could not be entirely trusted. They both independently decided that their primary loyalty was to each other. Sitting together watching a sports event was so reminiscent of the end of Supernatural Xmas, Carver’s long ago powerful scene of the brother’s bond –visually expressing that being together as brothers fighting evil is a lonely and crummy life, but it has an integrity and makes both honorable men an audience can admire. Great ending.
Comment by CaseyT — January 17, 2013 @ 4:39 am
@ nickmaniac: I can appreciate that some fans love this show and are okay with what is being shown. What I don’t appreciate is the writers being so uncreative or uninterested that they wouldn’t care whether they gave the fans an interesting, well-plotted story and that we would be satisfied with it.
In particular, I did not hate this episode, but I mourn the loss of great potential once again for the sake of fan service — the mythical brother bond — and that it was provided in a most unsatisfying way. Particularly, I am not satisfied with:
20 minutes of angel torture. When first introduced, Alfie was an adorable new type of angel, and that character was sacrificed for no good reason. It would have been so much more interesting if Alfie, who genuinely cared about Cas, could have worked with Cas against Naomi’s evil plans. This would have expanded the SPNverse with a likeable character, and expanded Cas’s character. Instead, we got Cas cowering, shaking in fear in a corner.
Dean started the season with the most interesting story that SPN has introduced in years — Purgatory. That was abruptly ended, as was all growth Dean seemingly had from his year in Purgatory. His 5-minute PTSD story — dropped. His badass, take no quarter story — dropped. His new-found leadership, making the hard decisions to get the job done — dropped. And what for? So he could be miserably beside Sam on a couch, drinking a beer, eating chili, and watching a boxing match. Oh, yeah, and this at a time when his supposedly BFF has just murdered the adorable angel and Dean suspects something is terribly wrong. I’m surprised Sam and Dean didn’t click beer bottles as the final touch to the touching coming together again ‘brotherhood.’
And you know what? After all this incredible tedious build-up to Naomi’s up to something and Crowley knows all these angel secrets, next week the boys will be off to romp with cutsey Charlie at a Ren Fair. Won’t that be cute?
In this episode, Dean gave up the very basic foundation of his character — a moral principle that we knew Dean had since Ep. 1.01 — loyalty –for no good reason at all. He cut Benny loose, without any support system at all, for what? To be miserable with Sam, but *sigh* the brotherhood is in tack. I mean, seriously, I’m supposed to be happy with the expanation of ‘the brothers had a rough spot in their enduring love relationship, but that’s over now. They’re back together and there’s no room for anyone else?’ Doesn’t work for me.
I’m supposed to be happy with 20 minutes of intense walking through a warehouse by our heroes. Sorry, but I was left to think why did they make a demon bomb to use on two random demons. After all of the time and trouble of Cas getting the obscure ingredients, I would have saved it for Crowley. Just another small point in an episode filled with meaningless small dribble. (Like Cas can see demon faces and angel blades kill both angels and demons — we knew that already from years ago.)
Amelia acting like a spoiled brat. She and Sam committing adultery, and then she asks Sam to maintain a long-term relationship as a second-place lover, and Sam has to give this a great deal of consideration. WTF? Oh, but he gave up that role to put the brotherhood back on track, even though he is miserable. Big whoop there, Sam. Your sacrifice is astonishing — but not in a good way.
The show has GOT to make me believe in the choices made. Dean ditching Benny, who just last episode had “never let me down” and Sam heroically giving up contrived Amelia when we’ve had no good explanation as to why he even likes her, why he’s treated Dean like shit, why he made any of the choices he made, doesn’t do that for me.
All of the choices made in this episode by all of the characters were made because the episode demanded it — not because it had anything to do with plot development or character development.
But, hey, the mythical brotherhood is back on track and we should all be happy with that. I very much resent it when the writers think everyone in the audience is dumb as a post. That’s the problem I have with this episode, with Carver at the moment, and with both lead characters. They made really ugly choices without a good explanation and I find them both totally unheroic an unsympathetic. In addition to that, the myth arc didn’t go beyond anything that we didn’t already know; i.e., there is an angel tablet, Crowley wants it and Naomi wants it
Oh, and did I mention the mythical brotherhood is back…*sigh*
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 4:57 am
Not surprised by the random, petty, no-brainer responses to my post here by Samfanatics. They are so narrow-minded with their “blinders” on that they have absolutely no comprehension what this entire series is about.
But those of us who watch it for more than a pretty face- and aren’t satisfied because one character is in bed half-naked- expect and deserve more than what was given us in this ineptly written episode.
We expert answers to questions the writers themselves posed. We expect the two main characters to adhere to at least one of their own standards! We expect progression of the storyline.
We expect some form of intelligent writing.
Instead we get soap-opera histronics with two boring and irritating characters. And Yep, I don’t give a Crap about Sam and Amelia.
We get a truly supernatural story- purgatory- shoved in our faces and then yanked away 1-2-3 into thin air.
We get the introduction of a character- whom Dean would have killed in the blink of an eye in the past- who provides another outlet for the story and the characters- and then is idiotically sacrificed so that the crap soap-opera storyline can end.
We see- once again- one brother “apologizing” to the other for something that is not his fault. “I am sorry I escaped Purgatory and interrupted your soap-opera.” What crap?
And some here question why the soap-opera romeo should apologize to his brother. Well, perhaps a simple “I am sorry I didn’t spend 1 single second looking for you Dean and I took you car and drove off into the big wide world and hit a dog and found the girl of my dreams (who just happens to be married to someone else) and resented you managing to find your way back here without my help.” might be a good reason.
But if you have on your blinders you can see any rationality in that. No to you it is “the past is the past” and “stop holding grudges”. That just shows the narrowness in thinking ability of your part.
To end the soap-opera storyline and bring the brothers “back together” there has to be resolution to the problems that broke them apart. Sam “sacrificing” his true happiness because “there are still things to be done” and Dean abandoning a person he felt absolute trust in and loyalty to so he can sit in a cabin and drink a beer with his brother is absolutely ridiculous.
And anyone who is truely satisfied with this “resolution” is 1) either so SICK of how crappy the show has been this season that they will accept ANYTHING at all to get the brothers talking to each other again or 2) they are watching the show for an individual character/actor and don’t care what crap the writers do to him as long as he is on screen.
For me that is not good enough at all. And until someone connected to this show can rationally explain why Sam did not look for his brother and why he was written as he ass this season will be another failure for me.
I may be disappointed but I am not giving up on my show. I know who the characters really are and those are the guys I love. Just because some writer from a failed soap-opera took over the show and tried his best to take a perfectly good series and turn it into a B-acted romantic farce does not mean I have to sit here and gloat over it.
I will continue to watch and continue to voice my disappointment and my pleasure when I find it. And if a few simple-minded individuals out there post displeasure with that too damn bad for you.
Comment by SL — January 17, 2013 @ 5:29 am
WHAT A DEPRESSIVE WAY TO GET THE BROTHER TOGETHER IN THAT UNHEALTHY AND TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IS A RINSE AND REPEAT OF SEASON 7 WE ARE TOGETHER BECAUSEWE HAVE NO ONE AND DEAN SUBMITTING TO SAM’S WISHES AGAIN ASSUMING ALL THE GUILT HIMSELF AGAIN AND LOSING TWO FRIENDS THAR CARE FOR HIM AN RESPECT HIM
Comment by angela — January 17, 2013 @ 5:39 am
To everyone who feels that Dean owed Sam an apology for the fake text, ok, yes, he did and He gave Sam that apology. Dean was wrong to do what he did and he said he was sorry.I am willing to agree with you on this. But, how come you don’t feel that Sam owes Dean an apology for anything? Like, ya know, not even bothering to try to figure out what happened to Dean after he disappeared and just saying screw it, leaving Dean to fight for life for a year, treating him like crap since finding him alive, stabbing him in the back by siccing Martin on Benny behind his back, and letting Martin knock him out ad leaving him handcuffed to a radiator? All these things are worse than Dean’s text, and although Dean was still wrong to do it, he wouldn’t have if Sam hadn’t done and acted like he has this season.
I’m guessing you don’t think any of that means that Sam owes Dean an apology for anything.
Oh sorry, I must remember that I have to love every rotten way Sam treats Dean this season, or I’m a Samhater, right? Got it.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 5:41 am
@SL - You have to accept that Carver doesn’t see a problem with the way Samhas been presented. He thinks it makes perfect sense that Sam didn’t search for Dean because the boys “promised to never search for each other.” We all know they never promised any such thing, and most of us don’t think Sam wouldn’t have investigated Dean’s disappearance.
The problem is the showrunner disagrees and has a completely different view of Sam and the show. For that reason, Samis never going to explain his actions. Sam can’t say lines that won’t be written for him.
Back in S5, I finally had to accept that Sam was never going to apologize to Dean for all the ways he wronged Dean in S4, and not because the character wouldn’t have apologized, but because Kripke didn’t think it was necessary. So, I just had to let it go and chop it up to bad writing.
I don’t think I will ever really understand why Sam didn’t look for Dean or why Sam thought that was okay. The writing is just bad. That’s all I can say. Supposedly, the boys have a honest talk in Episode 13 so maybe we’ll get to understand why Sam thought Dean was dead, and why he didn’t investigate. Sadly, it depends on if KC thinks that’s important to the show. I don’t know if he does.
As far as the adultery is concerned, I’m pretty sure Don’s “death” nullified or voided the marriage. He had been dead for at least a year. So, technically, Sam is not an
adulterer; just a cheater. LOL!
@CaseyT - The one part I truly enjoyed was the last few minutes with Sam and Dean together. As you said, the ending was great!
Comment by Lisa1 — January 17, 2013 @ 5:59 am
@SL - You have to accept that Carver doesn’t see a problem with the way Samhas been presented. He thinks it makes perfect sense that Sam didn’t search for Dean because the boys “promised to never search for each other.” We all know they never promised any such thing, and most of us don’t think Sam wouldn’t have investigated Dean’s disappearance.
The problem is the showrunner disagrees and has a completely different view of Sam and the show. For that reason, Sam is never going to explain his actions. Sam can’t say lines that won’t be written for him.
Back in S5, I finally had to accept that Sam was never going to apologize to Dean for all the ways he wronged Dean in S4, and not because the character wouldn’t have apologized, but because Kripke didn’t think it was necessary. So, I just had to let it go and chop it up to bad writing.
I don’t think I will ever really understand why Sam didn’t look for Dean or why Sam thought that was okay. The writing is just bad. That’s all I can say. Supposedly, the boys have a honest talk in Episode 13 so maybe we’ll get to understand why Sam thought Dean was dead, and why he didn’t investigate. Sadly, it depends on if KC thinks that’s important to the show. I don’t know if he does.
As far as the adultery is concerned, I’m pretty sure Don’s “death” nullified or voided the marriage. He had been dead for at least a year. So, technically, Sam is not an
adulterer; just a cheater. LOL!
@CaseyT - The one part I truly enjoyed was the last few minutes with Sam and Dean together. As you said, the ending was great!
Comment by Lisa1 — January 17, 2013 @ 6:02 am
Do adults actually get back together by a series of apologies or working through every divisive issue of their past? That they resolve all their issues and after having issued multiple apologies and having agreed on degrees of fault in each case start anew with everything resolved. It just doesn’t work that way. The first decision in a reconciliation is to reconnect and that’s not a result of having resolved all the issues, nor is it even a rational process. People come to think and feel that the partnership is worth saving despite all the hurts that split them. Adults know that even the closest relationships have to put some hurts aside, that perfect partnership, with no hurts, no disagreements, does not exist. I don’t see this episode’s reconciliation as a sell out to character development, but an assertion that both guys have become adults. Great character development. They are no longer teen figures fixated on all past disagreements and hurt feelings and realize that adults have to simply put aside some issues; that an adult partnership means living with your past, not dwelling on its negatives.
It is important to put the Dean-Sam relationship back together. It is that relationship that has made SPN more than simply another fantasy series. It has been grounded in that human bond. It could go on with Dean partnering with a vampire, and Sam in a soap opera, and Castiel and his angel stories, but that is simply a collection of separate stories vaguely connected for fans of those characters. Getting the guys back together is not simply a fan service; it is the opposite: getting SPN back to a series with a compelling human core that has made SPN more than simply another fantasy series.
Sheri–never disagreed with you so much. Didn’t think we saw it so differently.
Comment by CaseyT — January 17, 2013 @ 6:33 am
i just rewatched this episode. it was good-but what bothers me the most is that when the brothers were arguing and dean said that if sam trusted him none of the things that happened wouldn’t have. (that is true by the way) but then sam said -you didn’t ask me to trust you you wanted me to trust benny and i can’t do that. so why (and i know because the writers didn’t think of it evidently) didn’t sam just ask cas about benny. that is really bugging me. and why couldn’t sam trust benny? he trusted lenore, he trusted the werewolf. whats the deal??? anyway other than that a solid episode. i even liked cas this episode. did hell freeze over???? lol
Comment by animal — January 17, 2013 @ 6:34 am
Where do I start?
I was not entirely happy with this episode. The ending was rushed and felt unresolved and “fake”. It was just too much time devoted on the angel stuff and not everything else was just kind of “there”. I am not happy that Sam slept with Amelia, she is supposed to be with her husband. I am glad that this part of the story is over with. As for the Benny/Dean story. We all should have known that this was going to happen. Benny was never going to be a long lasting character, just like Amelia. I never was happy with the way Dean chose a vampire over his brother, because they show has a great track record on things going wrong when a brother chose a monster over the other brother. (This is my opinion, I know that others feel very differently) It is not about Benny, he is a cool character, is the fact, that he is a vampire. A hunter like Dean should have known that sooner or later Benny would have fallen of the wagon. I really thing this one reason why Dean had agreed to part ways when they got out of purgatory. I feel for Benny because he was left to hang dry and alone. But to be honest, it should have not been a surprise. This show has always and will always be about Sam and Dean or Dean and Sam. I mean, they writers have gone as far as to kill Bobby off for crying out laud. I am not happy at all with the way they are treating Sam, and I am not happy at all with the way they are treating Dean. But at the end of the day, the writers have done what they wanted to do, and it has already been filmed for the most part. The only thing I can do is hope it gets better from here. I do want to point out, in honesty that if you are really this upset about the show, it may be time for you to stop watching. This is not a comment to hurt or upset anyone here, we all see they show differently and we are all entitled to do so. Some people like it the way it is, some people don’t and that is ok. It would not be fun if we all were on the same page. But some of the comments here are very intense. I do not agree with some and agree with others. But some are down right scary. If you are in all honestly this upset over the show, you may want to cut your losses and call it a day. I mean, if I happen to feel that Sam has a point, it means I hate Dean? or if I feel that Dean has a point, I hate Sam? That is kind of scary. Saying some people are brain dead because they don’t see the show the way you do is not the best way to have an open and honest line of communication with other fans that happen to enjoy and watch a show just like you do.
Comment by Jose — January 17, 2013 @ 6:43 am
@Animal - we may never know why Sam doesn’t trust Benny. The writers haven’t seen fit to expand on that. Who knows why?
@CaseyT - I couldn’t agree more with your post! The Sam/Dean relationship needed to be put intact, esp since the boys were perfectly fine with each other last year. This conflict and angst has been contrived and bad for the show.
Last night was a step in the right direction!
Comment by Lisa1 — January 17, 2013 @ 6:51 am
Lisa1–Guess I have to add that once having agreed to reconnect, and that that reconnection is to be preserved above all else, the two can now take on the serious issues of the past. Now we might get an honest answer to why Sam didn’t look for Dean because they can actually talk to each other about serious hurts without the fear that that will drive them apart. If they have grown-up, that should be the case.
Comment by CaseyT — January 17, 2013 @ 6:51 am
Cas has not been with them since the hunteri heroici episode, so he was not around to ask he was off doing pennance, helping people. It still makes no sense why Sam has such a strong distrust of Benny compared to other creatures or why he has been acting like such an ass. Now he convinced Dean to make a stupid decision which will come back to haunt them later. Why force Dean to abandon Benny. Now Benny will end up offing Amelia and then the fight will be back on anyway.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 6:52 am
@AW
The only reason I can think for Sam to distrust Benny would be his own experience. He trusted Ruby when Dean told him not to because he thought he was making the wright decision. And that ended so badly, he does not want Dean to do the same mistake. And also jealousy, lets face it, Dean made it very clear that he felt very strongly for Benny. Most brothers would not take that without some sort of jealous feelings. Considering how close these two are, it is not hard to believe. Also, Sam did not convince Dean to do anything, where did you get that from? Nobody can make Dean do anything he doesn’t want to do. He chose to abandon Benny. That was wrong and that was all Dean. That’s the way I saw it anyway. I do think you might be right about the “Benny Kills Amelia” thing. The fight would be back on and it would be oh, so predictable.
Comment by Jose — January 17, 2013 @ 7:07 am
@ CaseyT: We absolutely do see the show differently at this point, but I’m not surprised. I think many fans will be happy to have ‘the brothers back together.’ But, you see, I never doubted at all that both leads would be together, doing whatever it is they are supposed to do this season, despite the logical progression being that as much as Sam dislikes Dean and Dean distrusts Sam, the logical progression would have been to separate them for a while before something big and traumatic brought them back together.
In no way did it even cross my mind that Dean would be hunting with Cas or Benny. Benny, of course, has been a threat to the Sam fans since his introduction, but unless Jared wanted to quit the show, and he didn’t because he was in contract negotiations since the season began, Benny was never a threat to replacing Sam. I can’t even guess at what Sam fans were fearing Benny for.
As for the ending, I think that was another lost opportunity in a season that is obviously nothing but lost opportunities. To seal the deal of the brothers reuniting in their bonding, they should have toasted themselves with a beer bottle tap. I think a hug would have been too much, but a toast would have been appropriate and then they could have watched their boxing match. There’s always tomorrow to think about their friend, Cas, when there’s a boxing match to be watched, together in their little cabin in the woods lost nest, don’t you think?
I don’t find either brother heroic or sympathetic. In fact, I think they are quite pathetic. Dean gave up a moral boundary — his sense of right and wrong — and all ‘maturity’ he had gained for the sake of being with Sam, and Sam didn’t learn a damned thing. Well, I think it worked out that Sam’s douchery, his adolescent pouting and foot stomping, his never owning up to his mistakes and accepting responsibility for them, was solidly reinforced and that any time he is unhappy with something, he can give Dean an ultimatum and Dean will roll over and let Sam wipe his feet on him.
I have never seen such a dsyfunctional, ugly, depressing, and loveless relationship in my life. The mythical brother bond that we have seen since S4 is not something that I cheer about.
Oh, and for the poster who thinks that Don’s ‘death’ for a year nullified the marriage –not so. That would take seven years, not to mention the after sex scene where Sam was feeling dirty for having committed adultery. Why do you think that whole conversation took place? It wasn’t because the sex wasn’t good.
None of that is what my idea of new ‘maturity,’ and none of that meets the promise of the season from the current showrunner that
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 7:23 am
I am so disappointed in last night’s episode. They didn’t resolve the brothers’ issues, to do that there needs to be honesty and admissions of mistakes and apologies on both sides. We didn’t get that last night. All we saw last night was Dean admitting the text was a mistake, but Sam didn’t own up to his mistakes from 8.09, and Sam did make mistakes, he was not an innocent victim. And yet, Sam didn’t take any responsibility for the problems between he and Dean. According to him, it all depended on Dean. That’s not how an honest, balanced relationship should work - one should not have to take all the blame and the other be exonerated, especially when the other one has a lot to own up to.
Comment by Shelby — January 17, 2013 @ 7:49 am
Wow, SN is back, and how. So many happened in this episode, maybe they should have done all this in 2 eps.. I have to say, I didn´t dislike any episode this season, including this one, but what are they doing? This season had so much potential, but they really messed it up.
- Purgatory; never made it, dean was already back in the first episode.
- The Purgatory flashbacks; the scenes were fantastic, I just cant understand why they didn’t show more of that
- Benny; everybody was excited about the character.. and now..
- Amelia - boring, didn’t like that story but they could at least made it a little more interesting at the end
- Kevin and his mother - good choice ditching that afwull character, Kevins mom
- Crowley - I used to love his character but this season he is really not.. Crowley
- Sam - Sam is being an a-hole this season
- Dean - he just.. let a friend down
- Castiel - how happy I was that he returned (I love his character), now he isn’t cas? I could accept that he took orders from naomi, but now he is controlled by her? So his actions are not his own? Why do they have to ruin this character? First he was evil, then he was crazy, and now he isn’t even himself (well, when he is in heaven he is).I would rather have the other angel survive this and him and cas going against Naomi together, as themselves. I really hope he gets normal (again).
This season is going the same way as last season. Started of with leviathans, but that story never moved on. Bobby died, returned, and disappeared forever. Same happens this season.. Every story either gets cut off or doesn’t move. Next week we get a fun episode? Really? After an episode like this? Just move on with the story please. I hope the whole castiel/angel/demon stuff will be interesting.
Comment by Robin — January 17, 2013 @ 7:54 am
@Sheri
I just have a question. Where do you get the idea that Sam has not own to his own mistakes from? I have seen Sam on more than one occasion state he is aware of his own stupid gigantic mistakes and try to correct them. He has owned them and has worked to fix or try to fix them. I am not saying he has not made new ones, but he does have, in fact, owned up to them. Dean did not roll over for anyone. When Sam told him it was up to him, and that he wanted him to stop the Benny thing, didn’t Dean walk out on Sam? He specifically told Cas not to get Sam involved. Dean only agreed to do this one case for Sam because Cas told him to stow their crap and help him. Did you not hear Dean tell Sam to go? Don’t you have a girlfriend waiting on you? Sam decided that it would be best for him to stay and help find out what the Deal is with Cas. Deep down, he probably wanted back with Dean as well, but that is not how it was presented on the show. Dean made the decision to drop Benny like a bag of garbage. I do not agree with the way Dean just cut him off. That was not right. Benny will probably fall back on killing and in a way it will be Dean’s fault. (just my opinion) Dean did not drop Benny to be with Sam, he wants to find out what the heck is up with Cas. A part of Dean probably wants back with Sam too. But again, this is not what we saw. They are brothers, they will never stop loving each other, but, they will probably never stop hurting each other. They are that close, they know what to do or say to really hurt the other one when they feel like it. I agree with “I don’t find either brother heroic or sympathetic” you go that right. I am only expressing the different way I saw some aspects of the episode as opposed to the way you did.
Comment by Jose — January 17, 2013 @ 7:57 am
About last season, I meant it started with evil cas, that story ended and the levi’s where introduced, but that story was never developed.
Comment by Robin — January 17, 2013 @ 7:58 am
@ jose just to clarify I said Sam forced Dean to make a stupid decision. That is how an ultamatum works right. He forced Dean to choose between Sam and Benny.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 7:59 am
@AW
Hi, I guess I just don’t see it. Sam wanted Dean to stop seeing Benny. Dean just up and left the motel room and left Sam behind. He left the state, and Sam behind. So, you could say that Dean did choose when he did that. He chose Benny. By waling out, he told Sam, F you, I made my choice. They where done, they only reason they got back was because Cas brought Sam over to help and Sam and Dean were both not happy about it. Then at the end, (and this is just the way I see it) the only decided to stay together to find out what is happening with Cas and the Angels. So, we get absolutely no closure on this at all. I guess we can agree to disagree?
Comment by Jose — January 17, 2013 @ 8:08 am
@jose So why then did Dean all of a sudden decide to have nothing more to do with Benny. It was because he choose Sam. So you really think it had nothin to do with Sams ultimatum. Just because it took the length of the show for him to choose, he still had to choose because of Sam. So really Sam was the one who said it has to all be my way or f you.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 8:31 am
Id say to Sam, go to Amelia and let Dean do his thing. All in all,its time to say good night to the wincheaster brothers after 8 seasons.. ‘Good night Johnboy’ sorry couldnt resist. Lol. :-).
Comment by Mys — January 17, 2013 @ 8:54 am
You Dean girls are so inherently pathetic. How about taking off your Dean goggles for seconds and actually watching the show? Y’all are ridiculous and you DESTROY THIS SHOW.
Comment by Katie — January 17, 2013 @ 10:02 am
@ Jose #57: The reason I say Sam has not owned up to his own mistakes and taken responsibility from them is:
a) For a hero to take a real heroes journey, that hero must encounter something, learn from it, and make a positive change. Sam has, indeed, said he is sorry multiple times, but he has never changed his behavior because of those mistakes. The biggest example relevant to this season is, of course, that he ran as soon as Dean died. He has run all of his life. Despite him having said in Point of No Return that running was always a mistake, here he is three years later still running.
Also, in running, he is clearly showing that he hasn’t learned that choices have consequences; whether those consequences are choosing Amelia over Dean (i.e., Ruby over Dean) or dumping Dean (for whatever his current want is), or dumping Kevin or random unknown people. Sam shrugged his shoulders and said other hunters would take care of them, but nothing about Kevin or Dean. He did agree with Dean that Kevin was their responsibility and went on the hunt. But that sense of responsibility disappeared the minute he dumped Martin in the middle of a hunt to go running back to Amelia.
I’m not even going to go into his behind-the-back deception of calling a batsh** crazy hunter in and going on the hunt for Benny without any justification whatsoever.
Sam, still irrationally, told Dean to choose him or choose Benny. Why? Dean wasn’t hunting with Benny. In fact, they are currently separated by the whole U.S.A. Dean wasn’t slipping out in the night to meet Benny. Dean wasn’t hanging around dives with Benny, shagging random females. Why exactly did Sam stomp his feet and issue a random ultimatum?
Yes, Dean initially walked away. That’s what he should have done, because Sam was (a) trying to force Dean into making all the decisions so that he would have no responsibility in anything and (b) that was the new, mature Dean we have been seeing this season.
That new and improved Dean, and all the character growth he had achieved (meaning that he had learned from his mistakes) disappeared the minute he said he was jealous of Sam, apologized for the 500th time to Sam, and abandoned Benny, along with his moral foundation of right and wrong (loyalty to a friend). So, as a character right now, Dean is a hypocrite and looks like a weak, pathetic, needy doormat. As far as I am concerned, Dean deserves (and should welcome) any feet wiping any character on the show wants to dish out to him. He has lost his moral center and why? To make Sam not look as much like an ass as he has this season, IMO.
Now, I say that because Dean has always been the moral compass on the show. He has now lost that banner to Sam, because he apologized and said he was wrong; therefore making all of Sam’s actions this season correct actions. Sam now has all of the power in the dysfunctionnal relationship, and any time Sam puts on his bitch face and stomps his feet, Dean should fall at his feet and apologize immediately.
Sam had nothing to do with Dean deciding to dump Benny. That’s all on Dean. Sam wasn’t around and, as far as the show goes, doesn’t know that Dean made that decision.
My guess is that Dean decided that since he told Sam he had to be in on the hunt with both feet, he had to do that himself. It had nothing to do with Sam’s pending decision or the only way that Dean could be with Sam. Dean simply dumped a guy that had helped keep him alive for a year in God’s armpit, had showed him the way out of Purgatory, and who had never violated a trust. Dean was being a dick and why? I guess the job of closing Hell’s Gates is more important than a person’s moral foundation in Dean’s mind now. that makes Dean pathetic.
From their actions in the show, the brothers stopped loving each other years ago. They’re still together out of habit, while some fans (most I would guess) hang on to the illusion of a mythical brotherhood. There’s no love in their relationship. They are miserable when they’re around each other. That’s what I’m seeing in the show, and that last scene in the couch clearly looked like they were miserable. Dean knows he was wrong in dumping Benny, and Sam wants to be with his married girlfriend. As far as I am concerned, that makes them both pathetic.
Instead of Sam being the only ass this season and cleaning that character up, the writers have made Dean an equal ass. There’s no heroes journey in becoming an ass for either Sam or Dean.
As a fan, I expect better storytelling than this.
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 10:08 am
I have a strong feeling that this won’t be the last that we see of Amelia. I have a feeling that Amelia is going to come back and tell Sam that she’s pregnant.
Comment by Jessica — January 17, 2013 @ 10:13 am
actually i didn’t think of deans apology as ernest and true. it was a more pacifying statement than a statement he truely believed. i don’t for one minute think dean was sorry he sent that text. i don’t want him to either. as for the last scene between the brothers. i think dean knows he did benny wrong. but on the other hand benny survived on his own getting and drinking bagged blood before. if benny got it before on his own-why can’t he get it himself now??? i just think benny just wanted a friend in the current time. now he is truely alone. that fact is what is going to cause him to come to dean and ask him to kill him. that there is nothing during the current time for him anymore. i don’t think he will resort to killing humans. just my opinion.
and wow-i really don’t get the hate on this episode. but then again i watch it as a b-movie instead of grade a class writing. so it doesn’t dissapoint me. maybe some of you need to look at it differantly. stop with the high expectations you have with the writing and how you want the story to go. you all know i hate cas-but his story was good in this episode.i could b*tch about him being once again a (whats wrong with cas thing) but i won’t-he has to have a role to do something -the writers always force him into an episode. they did it well this week. the brothers were moved along. with a twist that carver always likes to throw in to raz the fans. look how many comments there are and the episode isn’t even 24 hours old yet.
can’t wait for next weeks episode. i like the midevil, knomes, fairies, themes. might be a funny episode.
Comment by animal — January 17, 2013 @ 10:28 am
@ Jessica: It would fit the soap theme, so I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Amelia either.
I think they’ll be one more episode of Benny killing and Dean having to hunt him, because that is the writer’s easiest way to wrap that story up, it’s predictable, and it fits with nicely with the miserable ‘woe is me’ life Dean’s so fond of.
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 10:32 am
I don’t think Dean apologizing to Sam for one specific thing makes Sam right about everything. I think they have a lot more crap to work out but I am glad they are together with some note of understanding between them. I agree with the folks who blame only one brother for the state of their relationship. Both of them contributed.
Comment by jace — January 17, 2013 @ 10:35 am
make that I DON’T agree with the folks who only blame one brother.
edit button fail again
Comment by jace — January 17, 2013 @ 10:38 am
as for sam-he is confusing me. dean gives him the OK so to speak to go and be with the love of his life (amelia) but he decides he wants to be with dean. that seems to me that his whole anguish about the benny situation was a jeolous childlike fit. it seems sam can’t make that break from dean. but then amoung all this he comes up with a nonselfish statement about all thats happening he needs to help. he is strange to me. dean is pure hunter this season. he is grown up-he can do the job on his own or with help. but sam seems unsettled. not sure what he wants. strange just strange.
Comment by animal — January 17, 2013 @ 10:41 am
I guess I don’t get the hate directed at other fans with differing opinions. Why are some of you who otherwise write quite eloquently taking out your frustrations with the show on fans who disagree with you? Called them stupid or delusional or only obsessed with an actor’s looks, questioning the number of brain cells . Really? How is that any way open minded? How does that encourage sharing varied ideas and opinions and perceptions which is what discussions are all about isn’t. Some of you act as if you are super annoyed that someone else would dare express a counter argument.
Sorry for the rant but this place is getting really hateful. Not just against the show but against other fans.
Comment by jace — January 17, 2013 @ 10:45 am
This is getting ridiculous. Look Dean said the whole two feet in speech because Sam was being a dumbass and was going to get himself killed. Was Dean stopping every 15 steps to stare off in space,no. In a hunt that will get you killed. Was dean ever distracted by daydreams because of Benny,No that will get you killed. Was Dean sleeping with another mans wife, no that will get you killed. What your saying makes no sense.Dean would have never thought of abandoning Benny if not for the ultimatum.He had to choose so he picked Sam duh,of course.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 11:05 am
Lets talk about the possible theory of Amelia getting pregnant. I mean they did sleep together in this episode, which leaves the perfect opportunity for Amelia to get pregnant. If Amelia does come back and she tells Sam she is pregnant, then I would want Sam to leave hunting so that he can be with Amelia and his unborn child. Sam grew up without a father and I don’t think Sam would want to give this child what he had, which is a family of dysfunction with a father in the child’s life. If anything, Sam would drop everything to be there fore his child if he were to become a father. I can seriously see Sam becoming the new Bobby Singer. Sam lives a reasonably normal life, has a possible wife (Amelia) and child (or children if he has more kids with Amelia) and Dean does all of the hunting, because that is who Dean is, a hunter. Sam would do all of the research for Dean and Dean’s possible hunting partners, etc. Kind of like what Bobby did for both Sam and Dean. I can totally see this happening. And I totally feel that Amelia and Sam is not over. The next time she comes back, I’m betting she will come back to tell Sam she’s pregnant and carrying his child. SPN is soap opera central this season.
Comment by Jessica — January 17, 2013 @ 11:15 am
gawd jessica-i hope that is not the case. but the writers usually give to one brother what the other brother has/had. and since dean had a daughter -sam having a kid is not so far fetched. i don’t want to see it but it is plausable.
Comment by animal — January 17, 2013 @ 11:26 am
If that happened how long before she cheats on Sam like she did on Don.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 11:38 am
Like I mentioned a few weeks back, will it be a “whose the baby daddy case”? Will Sam be called to appear on Jerry Springer or Maury. Sam Winchester, you are…………..not the father. Or the other way around. Don’t really care.
AW, I doubt she will go against something that she strongly believe in more than once in her life. I’m sure Sam is a special case.
Comment by Stone120 — January 17, 2013 @ 11:44 am
oh yeah sure in my experience once a cheat always a cheat. It goes back to the whole the grass is always greener thing. I’m sure don was her special once in a lifetime love too,before she met sam.
Comment by AW — January 17, 2013 @ 11:54 am
I really, really hope that she is NOT pregnant. Again, how fair would it be that Dean has always wanted to be a father and all he could have was a monster daughter that had to be killed, but Sam gets to have one when we’ve never seen any inclination towards being a father from him? Also, how irresponsible would that be? Amelia has a husband, yet she sleeps with Sam and they are not even careful about it? No grown woman should be accidently getting pregnant these days. And last season Sam rightfully called Dean on his not bothering to Trojan up during his tryst with Lydia.
And again, that would just be a cliched soap opera device that has no business on a show like SPN.
The soap opera is over. Please let it stay over.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 11:57 am
63- Katie, are you at all capable of disagreeing with people without childishly insulting them and calling them names?
64 Sherri- I’m afraid we’ll see more dickhead behavior from Dean coming up. I recall Robert Singer stating that Dean will act in some unquestionable ways himself that will have us side-eyeing him, so we shouldn’t be too hard on Sam or something like that. I don’t think he was referring to the situation with Benny or dumping Benny. Maybe after how he treated Benny he will go and do something like sleep with Elizabeth, I don’t know.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 12:07 pm
Dean did trojan up as you put it. I think he said something in the line of “of course I did, accidents happen”. As in maybe it burst. Also, as much as Dean sleep around, do you really think he wouldn’t make a habit of trojaning up? He would have been a dead hunter by now (ummm killed by a disease and not through something supernatural).
Again, I ask, do you think a thin film of rubber would stop a woman who can conceive and give birth all within 24 hours.
Oh never mind.
Carry on.
Comment by Stone120 — January 17, 2013 @ 12:31 pm
Well Stone, my point was, Sam assumed Dean wasn’t careful and called him on it. So it would be really dumb, to me, that Sam himself would be so irresponsible with a married woman.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 12:36 pm
The fact that he slept with her to begin with negate any expectations that I would have from him.
In the last 8 years of watching Sam, this Amelia business is the last thing I would have expected from him. So at this point nothing about this epic love story will surprise me. All the best to him and his true love.
Comment by Stone120 — January 17, 2013 @ 12:46 pm
I was quite impressed with Kevin in this episode. It was strange that he only had that one scene, but it was effective. He clearly made an impression on Dean, and I think this was one of the factors that influenced Dean to give Sam his choice, and to cut things off with Benny, although I did feel bad for Benny, he’s clearly going to fall without a good friend like Dean for support.
Of course when he does, that will be one more thing for Dean to be guilty about, but oh well. I also liked how they made Kevin look, it’s obvious how hard he’s been working by his unshaven, disheveledness.
I didn’t know what the make of the last scene. Sam just walks in, we didn’t see him when he was off on his walk struggling with his decision.Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that story is on hold for now, but still, after all his love talk I expected to see some kind of conflict.
I’m glad that the boys were at least civil to eachother at the end, but I really want the closeness back when it used to be that they would kill and die for the other. I know some people say that hasn’t been since season 4, but I disagree. I believe it was always shown how close they were until this season. I wish Carver would remember some of the episodes he himself wrote that showed the boys love for eachother.
As for Cas,I do expect more angst from Dean about him in future episodes. I just don’t think they had time for it here. And I really am sorry they killed Samandriel, I liked him and thought he had potential as a recurring character.
Don’t like Naomi. I guess that’s the point but also, I don’t get who she is and who the ‘they’ are that Samandriel was referring to. And the poor little guy thought Cas was there to save him. Hey Naomi, it wasn’t Alfie’s fault the demons sliced into him, why did he have to die?
Where is GOD? Why do all these rogue angels have so much control?
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 1:10 pm
@Sheri - If the military issued Amelia a death certificate then I see no reason why she could not remarry one year, six months, or six days after her husband’s death. I’m not sure why you think a widow or widower is made to wait seven years until he/she can re-marry. Some people are re-married w/in a year of a spouse’s passing.
Now, if he was declared missing rather than dead, then there may be a wait period. I thought the show indicated he was dead, not missing.
In any event, my argument was never that Sam did the “right” thing. In the eyes of the law, I don’t believe Amelia is still “married” to Don. No marriage, no adultery. People keep mentioning adultery, and I don’t think there is any adultery in this situation.
Again, that doesn’t mean I’m saying Sam should be proud of sleeping w/Amelia, etc.
Comment by Lisa1 — January 17, 2013 @ 1:41 pm
Great Episode! Not overly fond of the amount of torture scenes in this episode, but otherwise it was fairly superb. The existence of angel tablet isn’t all that surprising, given that people were already speculating about it from the beginning. Loved the twist at the end where Sam finally left Amelia. Dean’s peace offering to Sam, by saying goodbye to Benny was very bittersweet. It was sad to see Dean say goodbye to Benny, although I do agree with Sam on some points. Dean handled the situation with Benny very backhandedly with Sam, so I definitely think he had a right to be suspicious there. Sam may have been wrong about Benny in the end, but so were Dean’s actions.
That being said, both goodbyes felt a bit anticlimatic and rather open ended in my opinion. As much as I’d like to see Sam and Amelia’s relationship to be over, I have a suspicion that more will happen with her towards the end of the season.
Comment by Mindy — January 17, 2013 @ 2:52 pm
I loved how they played the angel tablet like it was some big, shocking twist and we couldn’t have figured it out before.
I also love how CROWLEY’S NOT FUCKING DEAD! KILL HIM ALREADY AND LET THE ANGELS TAKE OVER!
Comment by Andrew — January 17, 2013 @ 3:03 pm
Regarding the theory that Amelia could get pregnant from their encounter, I see that sort of thing being highly unlikely. But seriously, I hope the writers wouldn’t even consider such an awful idea. Dean’s monster child was bad enough last year (one the worst episodes of the season in my opinion) we don’t need a repeat situation of that. And seriously, Sam and Amelia are both adults and it’s highly unlikely that they wouldn’t be using at least some form of protection.
It’s more plausible that something supernatural gets to Amelia and she calls Sam because she doesn’t know what to do. And it’s entirely possible that demons could’ve been following Sam when he went to see Amelia, especially considering that all gloves are off in regard to Crowley sending his muts after the Winchesters.
Comment by Mindy — January 17, 2013 @ 3:04 pm
I was disappointed. I think Sheri is right that nothing was resolved - but I heard that epi 13 is where the boys reconcile, so I think there will be more coming up. In some ways I feel like this is where they’re bottoming out. They’re too tired even to fight with each other or to fight fate.
I’m a Cas fan, and we didn’t see enough of him - and way too much torture. Pointless torture. Plus I loved Samandriel. I’ve always thought that the depiction of angels was a little too heavy-handed. Samandriel was the first angel we could really like. (Balthazar was charming, but kind of sex-drugs-fiend and criminal) And I really hate the implication that angels are just NPCs and programmable at will. Maybe they’re trying to give Cas a get out of the doghouse card with Dean - but his rebellion was so hard-earned and he paid for it so dearly - I really want it to be his own choice, not something he was forced into. (Not to mention what that would mean about Lucifer, Sam etc)
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 17, 2013 @ 3:09 pm
Lisa1, I don’t think Sam is proud of it either.
roxi, excellent point about the parallels of Kevin and mom and Dean and Benny. I haven’t thought that through. To paraphrase Dean, distractions get you dead.
Comment by jace — January 17, 2013 @ 3:10 pm
In response to so many who think Sam had nothing to apologize for (ie: mo, Li, Sara etc.) I ask you how is sending a scary message to stop your brother from killing an innocent person, (Vampire yes, but not the one eating people) a terrible thing requiring an apology but it’s perfectly all right to send an unbalanced hunter to spy on Dean’s friend (behind his back), to refuse to trust Dean’s appraisal of the situation and go on a with hunt, leaving Dean bleeding, and possibly concussed, handcuffed to a radiator, and finely stealing Martian’s car leaving him in the middle of the bush and abandoning the hunt not to mention Dean still cuffed to the radiator and bleeding as far as he knows. No Dean didn’t have a concussion and escaped the radiator with his usual aplomb but Sam didn’t know that.
In the face of all this Dean owed Sam an apology but Sam didn’t ow Dean one. There is something terribly out of balance in this.
No CaseyT adult relationships do not require extensive apologies and resolutions of every past hurt to bring about a reconciliation. On the other hand when a attitude or behavior that harms or offends one of the adults in question goes unchecked, unresolved, hell unaddressed, that relationship will not survive.
Time and again trouble has erupted not only within the relationship but for the rest of the world because Sam did not trust Dean. Hunts have been complicated when Sam mocked him or simply disregarded at his opinion. Some might have even been overlooked but for Dean’s determination. Then there’s the big one. His complete lack of faith in Dean was a major contributor to his choosing Ruby over Dean. He had to stop Lilith because he believed Dean was weak, broken, holding him back and too afraid. I’d call that a decided lack of faith.
Sam’s inability to trust Dean continues to be so extreme he not only refused to accept Dean’s evaluation of Benny’s role in “Citizen Fang” he allowed someone to cold conk Dean and left him in his aforementioned condition.
No it’s not the only problem with their relationship but it’s the one that has caused the most trouble between them. (without trust how can a relationship survive) Ignoring this type of problem is neither adult nor productive and it will push them apart again.
Lilli @18, Sam is not in the habit of giving up anyone one or anything for Dean and this situation is no different. Not even when he decided to help Dean in “Scarecrow” was it really a sacrifice for Dean. Much was made (By Sam) about Dean not wanting to be alone but Sam also made a point about how comforting it was to know Dean was out there ready to come to his aid if Sam ever needed him. Sam wasn’t about to let the only person he could count on die.
Jose @57, Yes Sam has admitted his mistakes but after saying it was his fault he promptly shunts some of the blame else were. eg: “Fallen Idols”
Sam - The little brother treatment is one
of the reasons I chose Ruby over you.
Dean - So you’re saying it was my fault?
Sam - No I’m saying it was a contributing factor.
CaseyT You go to far when you say Dean chooses to be a door mate and deserves nothing more. I don’t perceive his half hearted apology as capitulation. As for dumping Benny, I don’t think that was necessary or even a good move on his part. (In my opinion) He may have thought that as he was insisting Sam make the commitment wholly and completely then he should do the same however I believe the primary motivator for this decision was his conversation with Keven. Like Keven sending his mother away because she was a distraction he could not afford in view of the safety of the world being at stake. I think Dean saw his ties to Benny as something that could keep him from giving one hundred percent to the cause. I don’t agree but it seems Dean may have. In point of fact I think it’s going to come back and bite him on the ass.
Over all I liked this episode but like others I found the resolution between the brothers hurried but better hurried than not at all. On the other hand I don’t think the drama between them is over either.
Comment by Haley 56 — January 17, 2013 @ 3:19 pm
I see it took me so long to compose my post that by the time I finished others have brought up an aspect that at the time that I began was unmentioned. Kevin influencing Dean’s choice. Slow and steady didn’t win that race. Hehehe.
Comment by Haley 56 — January 17, 2013 @ 3:27 pm
Amelia didn’t ask Sam to be her affair on the side. If Sam had been there, she would’ve left Don. She wasn’t asking to keep both of them, but she wasn’t going to hurt Don by asking for a divorce if Sam couldn’t commit. All in or all out. It’s the whole theme of the episode.
Comment by Kim — January 17, 2013 @ 3:44 pm
But she is still married to Don, so sleeping with Sam does constitute cheating. She was unfaithful.
If she said that she would wait for Sam to make a decision, ok, but that’s not what she did. She went ahead and had sex with him while Don is at home none the wiser. So yes, this is committing adultery. And to me, it was a selfish act. I can forgive Sam for it more than I can her, although he was in the wrong too.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 3:52 pm
Sheri: Sadly, I do have to agree with 99% of your posts on this thread.
Unlike the fanatics here who can see no wrong with their favorite character I am clearly able to see wrong with both my favorite characters.
Sam has too many to repeat over and over again. Sad what a new runner can do so easily to assassinate a beloved character.
Dean dropped Benny like a hot potato. After all the faith and all the talk about trust and loyalty and debt in the previous episode, one phone call and Adios Benny.
Once again an attack on a main character’s foundation. Dean’s loyalty is solid with everyone he has ever given it to. And now it flies out the window like a tornado.
I never wanted Benny to have a major role on this show. There are only two major roles and they belong to Dean and Sam. And when I first read about Benny in the previews before the season began it displeased me. How can Dean be allies with a vampire here on earth? For me it didn’t make sense.
But when I saw the scenes from Purgatory- and how Benny and Dean worked together to save each other-I thought, ok, maybe it can work. And when Sam treated his brother like dirt I was very glad that Benny was there to show Dean that some people are really loyal to each other.
The crap from Sam about Benny was so selfish and childish it just reinforced to me that Sam was being written by an ass.
But, for me, Benny really had no storyline. I would have liked him to have gone off on good terms with Dean and possibly returned in the future to help out in some small but significant way. That would be a good suppporting character.
Instead we get Benny calling Dean for help- you can see how down he is after the crap from the previous episode- and Dean suddenly and simply tells the man who he would have died for that he is on his own. No explanation for it. Just does it.
And now all we can really expect if Benny is going to be back on show is he will begin hunting humans again and Dean will have to kill him off. If we are lucky Benny will not be mentioned again so we can save him from such a stupid ending.
Perhaps now the season will focus on Dean and Sam (although the next episode really does make me wonder)instead of on guest-stars and weak characters.
But sadly it has already left a very bad taste in my mouth. As has been pointed out we can’t change the crap Carver has thrown at us but we can try to hope there will be less of it ahead of us. And maybe that upcoming episode (#13?) will provide us with some answers to explain how Sam could be such an ass and Dean could dump a friend in need without a blink of an eye. I have to hope.
Comment by SL — January 17, 2013 @ 4:16 pm
I’m going to address some of the comments above collectively, because there are too many to respond to individually.
Basically, the writers bailed on everything they have spent months setting up in this episode. Maybe their intention is to address the brothers and their “issues” again in 8.13, as spoilers would indicate, but at this point, I think I can’t even stand the thought of listening to Sam bitch and Dean explain one more f’ing minute. I am so done with that after 7.5 years, and I wished TPTB, and Carver specifically, would move on from the brother thing and just tell a story for a change.
Secondly, what person of any principle would cut loose something they love (Kevin and his mother) or a friend that you feel deeply indebted to (like Dean and Benny) “for the sake of the job?” Love and/or integrity is not something you decide to have for breakfast, like do I or do I not want eggs and bacon. It becomes a basic core of an individual, as we have been told it is with Dean since Ep. 1.01 (Dean loves his family and Dean is 100% loyal to family and friends.) There has been absolutely no driving imperative in the myth arc at this point for Kevin to cut his mother loose or for Dean to cut Benny loose. Hell, Dean doesn’t even know what the myth arc is at this point. All he knows is that there is something “suspect” with Cas and that Crowley has half a tablet, and that leaves me to think that Dean cut Benny loose because he’s worried about Cas or because he asked Sam to have both feet in the game, so he thought he should, too. I call BS. The game hasn’t started yet.
There is still no explanation for Sam’s illogical ultimatum. Benny is clear across the U.S.A. from Dean (or thereabouts), they are not and have no intentions of hunting together, and Sam doesn’t even know that Benny called and asked Dean to be his AA advisor.
Granted, I’m not liking that the writers have turned Benny into a needy whiner who is making demands on Dean, but that doesn’t excuse the total kiss-off Dean gave him, and it certainly doesn’t explain Sam’s illogical hatred of Benny.
My personal opinion is that the myth arc hasn’t moved, and isn’t moving, because the writers couldn’t figure out how to write themselves out of the God-awful “brother’s bond” relationship crap they dished up this year. Now, I may be wrong about that and they may have full intentions of coming back to it again in 8.13; but, at this point, I find both Sam and Dean pathetic characters for where Carver has taken the mythical ‘brother bond’, and I don’t give a rat’s a** about their relationship one way or the other.
But more than Sam’s ultimatum, my mouth is still open at the immature stupidity of Amelia’s ultimatum to Sam and the writer actually dished this to the fans. I do, however, think we’ll see more of her and of her and Sam. They both suck and so does that story, and nothing they did in this episode improved it. In fact, the ultimatum and the adultery was just another bitter pill to swallow.
We’re off to the Ren Fair next episode because, God knows we need something light and fluffy after all the angst of this one. Then we’re meeting Mr. Winchester so that the brothers can learn something astonishingly new about John. Probably not, but that’s what’s promised.
Then, I guess, we’ll get back to the snail of a myth arc and have another heart-to-heart over unresolved issues that will probably remain unresolved after the big heart-to-heart (if the history of the show can be used as a gauge).
Riveting!
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 5:27 pm
I thought one of the brothers was supposed to have a connection to the myth arc, it looks the myth arc belongs to Cas and Kevin with Sam and Dean just helping out.
Sherri, I don’t think Kevin cut him Mom loose per se. He just figured she’d be safer and he’d be better able to focus on the task at hand with her safe but away from him. I actually think it was a wise decision and I’m liking Kevin more and more as his character develops.
Since Amelia is gone for now, I’m assuming that 8:17 ‘Goodbye Stranger’ pertains to Benny. Yes, Dean was wrong to brush him off, but I believe Sam bears some responsibility also, because Benny was controlling his cravings before the whole Martin debacle, and I’m sorry but yes that whole thing was set in motion by Sam’s actions. And I wonder if we will ever see Elizabeth again. I had kinda hoped maybe something would happen between her and Dean, but I guess it won’t.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 5:44 pm
Haley 56–”CaseyT You go to far when you say Dean chooses to be a door mate and deserves nothing more.”
Never even thought this much less write something like this.
Comment by CaseyT — January 17, 2013 @ 5:51 pm
On one site, I actually read a couple of comments that, wait for it, Dean’s gesture to Sam to go ahead and go back to Amelia and leave the hunting life, saying’ One of us should be happy’ was not a loving gesture, but a guilt trip to manipulate Sam! Wow.
I guess with some fans Dean will never get credit for anything.
Comment by roxi — January 17, 2013 @ 6:32 pm
# Haley56: That was me that said Dean chooses to be a doormat.
I agree with you Kevin’s speech about cutting his mother loose was probably Dean’s rational behind cutting Benny loose. (Actually, I had forgotten that scene and just now was able to watch the episode for a second time.) But here’s my problem with that, and it is directed more at Carver than at Dean.
What person of any principle would cut loose something they love (Kevin and his mom) or a friend that you feel deeply indebted to (like Benny) “for the sake of the job?” Love and/or integrity is not something you decide to have one minute and not the next. It becomes a basic core of an individual, as we have been told it is with Dean since Ep. 1.01 (Dean loves his family and Dean is 100% loyal to family and friends.) Look at how Dean tortured himself over him thinking he had somehow left Cas in Purgatory two damned episodes ago.
There has been absolutely no driving imperative in the myth arc at this point for Kevin to cut his mother loose or for Dean to cut Benny loose. Hell, Dean doesn’t even know what the myth arc is at this point. All he knows is that there is something “suspect” with Cas and that Crowley has half a tablet, and that leaves me to think that Dean cut Benny loose because he’s worried about Cas. I call BS. You don’t cut one friend loose to help another friend out, and you don’t cut family and friends loose to “get the job done.”
Dean has stood up to Heaven and Hell both and never dreamed of doing that. In fact, he beat himself up unmercifully because he couldn’t save his friends. Think of the S5, S6 and the entire S7.
There is still no explanation for Sam’s illogical ultimatum. Benny is clear across the U.S.A. from Dean (or thereabouts), they are not and have no intentions of hunting together, and Sam doesn’t even know that Benny called and asked Dean to be his AA advisor. Yet, Dean’s ultimatum to Sam, “both feet in or both feet out” mirrors Amelia’s ultimatum to Sam, so Dean decides to be a dick and cut Benny loose as a tit-for-tat. To me, this is Dean choosing to be a doormat.
My bigger problem with this episode is that I think I finally figured Sam being an ass all season and, now, Dean being a pathetic hypocrite is because Carver does not know the inner workings of the two leads. He doesn’t have a good understanding of either character, and I think allowing the writer to go chuck the very basic foundation of Dean proves this and fully explains why Sam has been a completely different character.
I thought that Sam’s douchery would lead to the new and matured Sam we have heard about since Comic Con and the badass Purgatory Dean was the new mature Dean. Not so. We’re only getting surface characters, and that is why they can be changed to fit the plot of each episode.
Just watch. I bet next week the brothers are dumbed down and play support characters to cutsey Charlie. The plot will of the episode will drive that.
Comment by Sheri — January 17, 2013 @ 9:25 pm
Though I take notes when reading so many posts at once, over 80 on this occasion, clearly I was not meticulous enough and I sincerely apologize CaseyT.
Sheri, perhaps I have grown to accustomed to judgmental, sanctimonious, posturing and often ridiculous, writing regarding hero’s. I remember being utterly appalled watching the episode in Buffy the Vampire Slayer when she returned after running away because she couldn’t cope with having killed Angel. Momma giving Buffy hell for not being more mature than she had been when she issued her “If you leave don’t come back” ultimatum. Xander and all his self-righteous judgmental ranting about her abandoning them when he was the one that lied resulting in her killing the man she loved (but that didn’t matter because he didn’t he didn’t like Angel so Buffy’s feeling were irrelevant). Even Willow was angry because Buffy left her alone to deal with her boyfriend issues forgetting that Buffy had, had to kill her own beloved and would have to live with that. I almost choked when in the end Buffy apologized to them. Hero’s are created with human feelings and human frailties yet must apologize for being so and self-righteous outrage no matter how hypocritical is not only acceptable but often condoned and appropriate. Xander never had to own up to lying to Buffy when, if he’d told the truth Buffy may never have had to kill Angel. Buff seemed to be the only one that ever understood that Angel and the demon Angelous were not the same person, at times not even the writers, so Xander’s maneuver required no apology or atonement despite how much he hurt Buffy. I see much of the same attitude here in Supernatural. Self-righteous indignation is it’s own reward and guilt over things the hero can not control not only the norm but justifiable and the hero’s due which must be imposed if not readily accepted.
Comment by Haley 56 — January 17, 2013 @ 10:11 pm
PS. Sheri why are you constantly calling Dean a hypocrite? It seems to be your favorite thing so I wonder, what is he being a hypocrite about?
Am I stepping in it here people?
Comment by Haley 56 — January 17, 2013 @ 10:15 pm
I believe Dean cut ties with Benny as a precautionary measure. Everyone he knows and trusts has at some point let him down and he didn’t want that to happen. It’s a knee jerk reaction — cut them out before they cut you. Dean’s been screwed by people he’s trusted so many times, he’s assuming it’s going to happen again (after Martin’s stupidity and Sam’s eagerness to kill) and is using Sam’s ultimatum as an launching pad to get out before it happens again. I don’t like it because I like Benny. He’s a great character with depth and added a cool nuance to the show. Benny was reaching out for help and he seems to really want to stay on the straight and narrow. But, to be honest, Benny can’t be Dean’s problem. Benny can make his own choices just like Dean needs to make his. When the dust settles, Dean’s a hunter and Benny’s a vampire. What happened to Martin could happen again and Dean can’t have that distraction hanging over him when he needs to save the world… again. I don’t like it, but I understand it. On the other hand, I am glad Sam finally got a grip. The whole mopey, loverboy routine was old from the start and I was never invested in that affair at all. He’s a Winchester. About time he acted like one. I don’t watch this show for soapy melodrama, so have no regrets seeing the end of it. I think the whole thing has been a bad idea for Sam, but I don’t find Dean’s decision out of character. Actually, I see it as a product of everything he’s endured. Now they have an uneasy alliance they both chose. Maybe we can get somewhere now.
Comment by SueP — January 17, 2013 @ 10:57 pm
#98. I’ve read that in a few places and from different fans (and not just ‘some fans who never give Dean credit for anything’). Dean has manipulated Sam to get what he wants before so do you not think it’s a possibility that he might have done it again here?
Comment by Maire C — January 17, 2013 @ 11:20 pm
@ Haley 56 #100 and #101: No, you’re not stepping in anything in asking your question.
I am calling Dean a hypocrite in this episode because the minute he cut Benny loose, he violated his very basic moral foundation of loyalty, his sense of right and wrong, and his integrity.
Since Ep. 1.01, we have known that Dean Winchester is nothing if not loyal to family and friends. Repeatedly thorughout the series, we have been shown that Dean has his own moral code that he marches to, he never violates that moral code, and he doesn’t care whether others follow it or not. All of that was written the minute he cut Benny loose as a pretext to “get the job done.” Look at my Post #99 and you’ll see a further explanation.
In saying that Klein turned Dean into a hypocrite, I am critizing her and Carver for allowing this and saying that neither know the inner workings of Dean’s character, only the surface. Sure, they can give us the looking at porn sites, the quick quips, the references to pop culture, and flirting with a waitress Dean Winchester, but that is not the Dean the fans know.
It’s been forever since I watched Buffy, so I don’t remember the episode you are talking about, but I do get the gist of what you are saying. Perhaps there is that trend in writing. Perhaps, even, there is a trend going around where multiple ‘issues’ are thrown into relationships and none of them get a satisfactory resolution as the writer drills down to resolve the main arc of the story. I don’t know. I don’t watch any other TV series and I’ve given up on most movies these days, because I don’t really appreciate most of what is considered ‘talent’. When I do find someone that I appreciate and has a natural innate talent, like JA does for acting and certain authors, then I tend to just follow that person’s career.
Klein also wrote The Curious Case of Dean Winchester and Caged Heat, both of which I liked. She does have a tendency to throw canon aside in favor of having characters do something shocking (turning Sampa into a pervert and selling out his grandsons, having Dean torture possessed Bobby, or Cas killing adorable Alfie) and she does seem to like sexualized and gruesome torture (Meg and crazy Campbell cousin and Alfie).
I liked this episode okay, too (except for Samelia, of course), but I don’t think she’s ever gone so far as to rewrite the basic characteristics of a lead character (Dean now a hypocrite).
Comment by Sheri — January 18, 2013 @ 3:46 am
103- Give me one example when Dean has manipulated Sam. Sorry to disagree, but I saw nothing selfish or manipulative here. Dean simply understood that Sam really wanted to be with this woman so he told him that he could deal with the Cas situation alone., and to go ahead. In what world is that being manipulative? Just because he said that one of them should be happy? What exactly is bad about Dean saying that? Al, he did was to remind him that he can;t have it both ways, so commit to his decision either way, because Dean knows from experience that you can’t have a foot in two worlds, he tried that himself. This was just good advice. I can’t for the life of me see a single thing selfish or manipulative about that.
Comment by roxi — January 18, 2013 @ 5:11 am
Considering that Dean said that after Sam was already hinting that he was staying, considering that the entire episode Dean was telling Sam he wasn’t needed or wanted as a hunting partner, I can clearly see how telling him to go and be happy with his little lady is manipulation/reverse psychology.
Roxi, my advice if you choose to accept it, is to ignore people and sites like that.
There are plenty of people on both sides of the argument (Sam and Dean’s) who can have clear and logical conversations about the issues facing the brothers without using anti-logic in their arguments. I choose to communicate with those people and leave the others to their own kind. It’s better for your sanity and blood pressure.
Comment by Stone120 — January 18, 2013 @ 5:33 am
Um, Stone, I didn’t understand. Are you being sarcastic or do you really believe Dean was manipulating Sam?
Comment by roxi — January 18, 2013 @ 5:43 am
I was being sarcastic.
The whole idea is ridiculous considering how the episode went down. But whatever.
Comment by Stone120 — January 18, 2013 @ 5:53 am
@105. One example of when Dean manipulated Sam would be with the text message in Citizen Fang.
What Dean said in this episode could easily be interpreted as being manipulative because he made sure Sam knew that if he choose to be happy (by going to Amelia) then he was going to be unhappy (”at least one of us should be happy.”)
I’m not saying that I overly agree with it but I don’t think it can just be dismissed as a case of ’some fans will never give Dean any credit’ because there was a precedent set in the previous episode.
@106. Why do you think what was said at that site was illogical?
Comment by Maire C — January 18, 2013 @ 5:56 am
“Dean’s gesture to Sam to go ahead and go back to Amelia and leave the hunting life, saying’ One of us should be happy’ was not a loving gesture, but a guilt trip to manipulate Sam!”
It’s more than likely that on that site, they were complaining before about how Dean refused to allow Sam his freedom to do what he wants. And now that he stepped back and say go ahead and do what makes you happy, he is being manipulative. If no matter what somebody does you’re going to find fault with it, than it’s illogical.
Considering that in this episode we finally had a Dean who was ready to let Sam go, and to me it was very clearly that this was it for Dean trying to keep Sam with him, from the context of the entire episode, I don’t see how it can be viewed as manipulation to keep Sam with it. Even the “decide” comment had to do with, you’re going to get yourself kill if you’re distracted not an “if you’re out than you’re dead to me” statement. But I”m sure some people will view it as such.
And the “manipulation” in CF was done to save a life not for some petty little desire to keep his little brother by his side.
Comment by Stone120 — January 18, 2013 @ 6:15 am
Sheri–think you are being too hard on Dean. I thought his equating Benny’s loyalty to him as superior to Sam’s loyalty was nothing more than a hurt-line in a peevish family squabble. Dean knew he and Benny were fighting for survival; that Benny was acting to save his own life not simply out of some great caring about Dean; its a foxhole relationship–and compared to the ups and downs of brotherhood and a lifetime together, that comparison was so apples and oranges as to be absurd. I think Dean knew that. He is a man of real loyalty, and not a man of loyalty to people who have been loyal only lately until the next year-long loyal person replaces the last.His loyalty is so deep it survives severe tests. Sam has saved Dean’s life many times; Sam has been with him since childhood; they have grown up together. Its to that Dean would be loyal. Dean is pissed at Sam (so am I) for not looking for him, but Dean’s loyalty is deep even when tested by this Sam who appears to be disconnected from him. Just my take.
Haley 56–thanks. Nice to know so many here really try to get along.
Comment by CaseyT — January 18, 2013 @ 7:42 am
How’s this for Soap Operaish?
Amelia finds out she’s pregnant and she’s not sure who’s baby it is so she has a test done, but the Angels manage to manipulate the results and show that the baby is Don’s when in fact its Sam’s. Late down the line Crowley discovers the little secret and let’s it slip.
Sam goes crazy and thinks that Dean and Cas are behind the whole thing, with a little help from Crowley. He goes to Amelia only to discover that she has been attacked and killed by a vampire and immediately thinks that it’s Benny when in fact it was the Alpha framing Benny.
Sam goes and tracks down Benny only to be stopped by Dean. The truth comes out that the baby’s paternity was covered up by the Angels and that the Alpha had killed Amelia. The brothers once again reunite and join forces to go after the Angels, the Alpha and Crowley.
It is also discovered that Don was brought back to break up Sam and Amelia by the Angels so he would get back into hunting, so Don is now added to the hit list.
Comment by Aislinn — January 18, 2013 @ 8:08 am
@ CaseyT #111: I really don’t think I am being too hard on Dean for dumping Benny.
Their relationship was forged in the fire and Benny earned the trust from Dean; Dean just didn’t give it willingly. Hell, Dean has even been loyal to John’s friends and repaid John’s debts (Deacon “Folsom Prison Blues” and Martin himself “Sam Interrupted”). Dean was not wrong in pointing out that Benny has never let him down and Sam has (repeatedly). Of course, those statements slipped out from the leaking hurt Dean holds inside, but the truth is still there.
The contrived turning Benny loose to “being all in” just doesn’t work for me. First of all, he’s not turning Cas loose to “be all in,” and Cas is a friend (who has betrayed him and whom he now suspects something is up with) just like Benny is a friend (who has never betrayed him). If Dean needs to “be all in,” then Cas needs to go, too.
I can’t buy that Dean is “all in” to help Cas out at this point, because neither Sam or Dean know anything except that Crowley has a half a tablet (which he has had for weeks or months at this point). The Winchesters are not connected with the myth arc in any way, except that they think if they get the half-table back from Crowley, Kevin can translate it and the Gates to Hell will be closed forever and they both can go live their normal, happy little lives. They don’t know about Naomi, the angel tablet, or that Cas is being manipulated at this point. So, basically, they are not yet personally involved in the real myth arc, which is the rush to keep all the tablets away from both the angels and the demons.
And that’s not to mention that Cas isn’t supposed to show up until Ep. 16 or 17, or somewhere around there.
Nor can I believe that anything was so imperative that the ‘jumping all in with both feet’ was necessary at this point. We are, after all, going to be romping around LARPing next episode with cutetsy, adorable Charlie Day.
And after that we go off to meet the other side of the family, and then we have to go back to the big heart-to-heart brother talk where they, once again, gain a deeper understanding of themselves, each other, and the brother bond is, once again, put back together into the enduring love affair that it is…maybe…well, anyway, I hope it comes off better than what was promised in this episode by the showrunner.
This episode put us right back to Ep. 8.01, where the brothers are together and miserable because hunting is all Dean deserves and Sam again feels some unexplained sense of responsibility to do…something…so he’s there with Dean. Nothing was resolved, except Cas and Benny were parked off to the side again.
There was, also, minimal progress on the myth arc front. I have no idea when the cute, manipulative, witty Crowley that we once loved lost his brain cells and didn’t figure out (like most fans, I would assume) that there was an angel tablet the minute Alfie told him about the ‘compendium’ of tablets.
Comment by Sheri — January 18, 2013 @ 8:42 am
i read on another site that the reason this episode happened is to get the side stories of amelia and benny off the table so they can focus on the main arc. so if amelia and benny aren’t part of the main arc then why in the h*ll do you write them in the first place??? carver just said in the promo for larp and the real girl that spn lends to the writers the capability to loose thier minds. Yea-they sure have. especially with the two leads. making them both out of character. sam from episode 8×1 on and now dean. it seems to me the writers / producers put too much on thier plate per season so they can’t ever really delve into a story and the innerworkings of that story but only write a surface story. which leaves the audience going wtf was that? i find fault in dean letting benny go. although it doesn’t necessarily mean benny is going to go bad because he has fended for himself before -its just now he is totally alone and i have always thought of vamps as social creatures. always needing someone to be with. why would dean have the need to cut benny off?? its not like he was with him 24/7 like kevins mom. i don’t get it and the writers are letting it up to the audience to figure it out like they do on so many things -especially this year.
ok so the tablets are the main arc-we NEVER have seen sam and dean doing anything about the tablets. if kevin is having a hard time reading half the demon tablet then why aren’t they trying to steal the other half from crowley??? if the tablets are the main arc then why aren’t sam and dean trying to find the rest of the tablets. wasn’t it voiced by cas last season that there are more than 1 tablet??? i thought this was raiders of the lost arc season. i’ll say-lost arc for sure. gawd knows where the tablet arc is or is going. or if the benny and amelia arcs are going anywhere. ok i blabbed long enought. just some random thoughts i had.
Comment by animal — January 18, 2013 @ 10:14 am
Sheri–I agree with you about the slow development of the season arc and the Winchesters’ lack of any real association with it. My guess is another Castiel driven arc for the last half-dozen or so episodes. Meanwhile, Dean and Sam have half a dozen or so epidoses to be featured in several standalones and become their usual confused clueless selves about the arc until Castiel can return and zap them around a bit and tell the dumb ass Winchesters what is really going on. (Seen this before.)Purgatory was Dean’s story; Amelia was Sam’s–Castiel and his angels are the arc. Dean will laugh a lot at Collins jokes and Sam will stand around looking bored.
IMO the best coming episodes for Dean or Sam or Dean/Sam should be the next 6 or so. Next week looks actually like fun.
Comment by CaseyT — January 18, 2013 @ 11:07 am
welcome to the front of the line jenny klien. that was one hell of an official writers intro. I like naomi and look forward to her getting slayed
Comment by WTF — January 18, 2013 @ 11:10 am
Why are some of you talking about Amelia being pregnant like you want this to happen? Please guys, don’t you want this soap opera to end?
If it does happen then please let it happen towards the end of the series.
Comment by roxi — January 18, 2013 @ 11:50 am
SPN has always painted angels to big bigger dicks than the demons most of the time. Samandriel was finally the good benevolent angel I had at first thought Cas was gonna be and they had to kill him. And this Naomi is a power mad bitch it seems.
How does she even exist? I thought when Cas went nuts and became ‘God’ he was all powerful. Wouldn’t he have been able to find all of the angels?
And why does it matter so much if the angels can’t roam freely in the universe? I mean, it’s not like they ever really feel the need to intervene on Earth. Cas and his minions came specially because of the Winchesters and that was a special case where they were really only concerned with their own interests i.e. getting the Apocalypse started. And why haven’t they shown an interest in these angel tablets before now?
To me, it makes more sense why you would want to confine the demons. They’re are the ones who reek havic with humans.
Comment by roxi — January 18, 2013 @ 12:02 pm
I noticed something strange in the scene where Naomi tells Cas to kill Samadiel right after she shoves cas it apppears as if you can see right through Naomi.What the hell does that mean?
Comment by AW — January 18, 2013 @ 1:43 pm
@ CaseyT #115: Dean didn’t really have a story, because other than not bringing Cas back and then having him appear unexpectedly so that Naomi could be introduced, nothing of Dean was of importance. Benny, in the end, had no importance as a character except to be a plot device that Sam could use to be jealous. Dean went to Purgatory, met Benny, hunted up Cas, and got out. The end. That’s no story. No PTSD, no big revelation that he learned anything or did anything other than survive. That’s simply not a story. Purgatory made for cool pictures to be used as flashbacks and in promos. Nothing else.
Sam had the Amelia story, and may I ask why? I don’t have a clue, except it gave him someplace to be while Dean was getting Benny The Plot Device out of Purgatory. That’s no story.
Neither brother did anything of any significance, didn’t contribute anything to the mytharc, and didn’t learn a damned thing. All the show did was pimp them again.
The angels have the story, and Cas is one of them. He can be used a an excuse to have the brothers in the episode.
At this point, I can only judge Carver as being no better than Gamble in the storytelling department, but…man…the guest stars must love him. They get work, recognition, and episodes of their own.
As far as I am concerned, next week’s looks just like the same dish we were served with Felicia Day’s first appearance. She’s clever, smarter than the brothers, has better quips, and Sam and Dean can serve as her court maids. In non-LARPies, that means support character to Felicia’s episode. I am so not looking forward to that episode. Maybe my curiosity will get the best of me and I’ll end up watching it so I’ll have something to talk about.
Comment by Sheri — January 18, 2013 @ 3:22 pm
I didn’t expect hunter heroici to be my favorite epi of the season, and I like Charlie, so I’m looking forward to next week. Besides - Dean as a knight in shining armor - who doesn’t love that?
I’m getting whiplash though, between the dark myth arc stuff (Suicide. Torture. ), the depressing Sam&Dean saga, and the lighter one offs. They aren’t developing the myth arc stuff enough to really follow if - never mind get into it. Plus they’re leaving loose ends all over the place. As Dean might say, they need to “clean up their mess”.
Plus, Crowley has degenerated from the urbane, weaselly demon who lived by his wits to a near-guttural troglodyte that any thug could play. I mean, you have the supreme good fortune to have Mark Sheppard, for god’s sake USE him. And Amanda Tapping as Naomi. I have the feeling she could be totally chilling if written the right way - like a combination of nurse ratchet and an evil nun.
I don’t want this ti turn into the season where the good guys aren’t good and the bad guys are boring.
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 18, 2013 @ 6:15 pm
@ t1gerlilly: I am completely baffled as to why the showrunner/writers seem to want to turn the two leads into pathetic asshats.
I find it quite irritating that the show seems to be leaving all the angst between the brothers and the misery they are so obviously suffering by now being together, along with Cas in Naomi’s clutches and Benny blowing in the wind all behind for what appears to be about a month of fun-filled one-offs. I have already lost interest in the mytharc, due to the snail’s pace of plotting. In another month, I will have forgotten there was even one to begin with.
I’d be happy at this point to just have an explanation as to how a prophet can go from innately being able to read a tablet to being completely unable to read half a tablet. I mean, seriously, the guy can either read one or he can’t.
I’m taking that whole logic fail to mean that the writer’s don’t have a clue as to where they want to take this great myth arc they dreamed up, so they’re simply throwing things in occassionally to remind us that there is one coming up…soon…maybe…as soon as they figure it out.
Comment by Sheri — January 18, 2013 @ 10:24 pm
Well, this episode wasn’t too bad. The people I felt most sorry for were Samandriel, Don, and Benny. These poor guys were really the ones getting screwed over.
And the feeling I get is that Carver intends to have each Winchester take his turn at being a jerk. In my opinion, first half of the season it was Sam. Second half now, I’m almost certain we’ll see Dean behave like an asshole. They got that ball rolling here by having Dean unceremoniously desert Benny in his hour of need, when he know he was struggling and desperately needed a friend. Ok, even if Dean felt he had to do it, he could have at least met the guy in person for that one cup of coffee and given him a peptalk, gave him some support. Nice way to treat somebody who helped save you ass, we’re told, many times in Purgatory. And if he goes off the wagon, it will not only be Sam’s fault for starting it by siccing Martin on him, but it will also be Dean’s fault for bailing on him after he clearly admitted he was getting weak and begged for Dean’s help. Robert Singer had warned that we shouldn’t judge Sam too harshly on his actions just yet, because we’re supposedly going to see a not too nice side of Dean as well. Geez, I can hardly wait to see what douchbaggery they have planned for Dean.
Listen, I’m all for character growth and maturity but come on, how is turning these characters, who always were heavily flawed but still at their core decent, caring people into such an unlikeable lot that many of us wouldn’t even want them as friends right now, equal character growth? Sam acting selfishly, Dean being unreasonable, and both of them just being downright pissy.
I sure hope this changes soon, I still want to see a satisfying conclusion to the Winchester’s story.
For starters, they can’t just go on and not get out in the open the conflict they just had that was tearing them apart. Sam needs to explain to Dean why he didn’t look for him, and not the lame’ I was alone’excuse he gave before, and Dean needs to help Sam understand just why he became such a good friend with a monster, and why he was so loyal to him. They both need to make eachother understand those situations before they can have any shot at actually becoming the close brothers and unified front they once were.
Comment by roxi — January 19, 2013 @ 5:52 am
I would like Sam to explain how Kate the werewolf is so more deserving of freedom than Benny the vampire. WTH is up. Sam is completely fine with the werewolf neither Sam or Dean know anything about. She can run around free as a bird. Dean completely vouches for Benny but that’s not good enough.
Comment by AW — January 19, 2013 @ 7:03 am
You know, roxi, at this point, I’d just as soon they not have that conversation, because I think it will be as unsatisfying as this one was. Since the show is so fond of dropped plots, I would be perfectly okay if this latest brother’s tension saga was put on the dropped plot list and we just fanwank that the brothers are back together, having each others’ backs, and the SPNverse is back to the natural order of things. That way we wouldn’t have to go through anymore Amelia, or watch Benny be turned into anymore of a needy damsel in distress, and perhaps we could get on to the mytharc story. There’s a lot that needs to be done with that, like:
What’s the urgency of it all? It’s not like the Winchesters have to stop the world from ending. It’s not the Apocalpyse. It’s not the Levi’s going to chomp up all of humanity. It’s not like there is anything even threatening the Winchesters.
What exactly is the personal stake the Winchesters have in this? Right now, all I see is that if they manage to close the Gate of Hell, they can lay down their guns and be normal. Maybe Sam can go back, be a homewrecker, and get the love of his life, go to college, and live a very comfortable life with a lawyer and vet income. Maybe Dean can go back, woe Lisa again, and have the wife and kid he always wanted. These are the aspirations of our heroes. Amelia and Lisa, or even seeking normal, are not really something that I particularly want to cheer the Winchesters on to accompllish. For some reason, Amelia and Lisa/Ben just don’t stand along side…say, the YED, Meg, Alistair, Zachariah, Uriel, Michael or Lucifer.
And they don’t even know about the angel tablet and the possibility of also putting the angels back in Heaven yet; thus effectively leaving the world free of all good and evil, leaving the world completely to humans and their free will. Kinda sounds like a Memorex Heaven kind of place, doesn’t it, with no responsibility required — just everybody doing what they want to do.
But, you’re right, roxi. The episode wasn’t bad. I haven’t yet said what I liked about it, so I’ll do that.
Bob Segar’s “Katmandu” at the beginning. Yeh.
The ‘burning bush’ was funny.
Cas healing the baby. Small, kind acts are always the best. In fact, this whole S4 Cas look I like.
All of the Dean/Cas scenes were cute. Reminded me of S4 Cas.
Seeing Vincent Gale again: Viggo, the torturer, was Evan in Crossroad Blues (if I’m not mistaken).
Dean falling asleep on the couch with a beer — very Dean Winchester, as was Dean pacing and annoying Kevin while he waited on Cas to get back from Egypt. A bored Dean Winchester is always cute.
I thought Singer’s direction was good, as always.
The new moves the boys have been using this season in their fight scenes. I liked the fight scene, but the fast cuts back and forth were a little fast.
I’m trying hard to think of something good to say that involves Sam, but the Sam/Amelia scenes are just so repulsive. Oh, here’s one. Sam fighting the demon without a weapon. Despite the demon having something he was using as a tool, Sam got in close enough with this long arms to give him a right hook. Nice use of Jared’s long arms.
Comment by Sheri — January 19, 2013 @ 7:17 am
t1gerlilly– a “season where the good guys aren’t good and the bad guys are boring,” a line worth repeating. What happened to creating some truly evil characters like Uriel, Zachariah, Alastair, Yellow-Eyes, Lilith, etc.? The most Sera could come up with was Hollywood cliché of corporate America and so far Carver has tried to recast Crowley in the thoroughly evil role. Carver created Benny so he can create compelling characters of his own. I don’t understand why he doesn’t use the same creativity to give some new evil and secondary characters, but prefers to retread existing past characters. So far, there is little new in Carver’s SPN. Some new writers are badly needed?
Sheri–I would say there was a purgatory and Sam/Amelia story; there was a plot, progress in the plot, and conflict. I guess that’s subject to a definition of “story” and I’m sure neither one of us wants to get bogged down in a definitional debate. I would agree with you they seem to have led nowhere, and their importance to any overall season arc is unresolved, and even if they are tied in later; it will be far too late to have any real dramatic impact.
Krepki, for all his faults, had the ability to keep an overall narrative thread progressing through a season. Sera just abandoned storytelling almost completely to stress moral ambiguity and redemption. I am afraid Carver is following the Sera approach. If the moral ambiguity of Sam and Dean and everyone, and everything, and any action is Carver’s as well as Sera’s “story,” then storytelling is not his bag either. Purgatory told us monsters, even vampires, can be good; Sam/Amelia told us even Sam can be a completely self-centered ass and adulterer–that was Carver’s reasons for those episodes. They weren’t intended to tie into any narrative season story.
And, it may be that J2, to commit to three more years and have less work while remaining marketable as the series stars, agreed to carry the work load in a distinct set of episodes, (5 or 6) or their equivalent, while the main thrust, and work-time, of the series would be carried by Collins and other secondary characters. (Have to say there was probably something important about signing and announcing Collins agreeing to be in at least 8 episodes, before the announcement that J2 had agreed to continue. You’d think first you’d secure J2; then Collins, but it happened in reverse.) The secondary character emphasis, or even his neglect of creating new characters, may not be Carver’s choice; he may be simply focusing on how to organize the series with less J2 emphasis.
Comment by CaseyT — January 19, 2013 @ 9:10 am
Yes, CaseyT, I can see where Purgatory and Sam/Amelia can be considered storylines for the Winchesters, as much so as plot vehicles for the brother tension and to get the angel story back online.
I’m afraid that you may be right about organizing the series with less J2 emphasis. Makes sense, given the lack of personal Winchester involvement in the myth arc. (How did I miss the fact Collins was signed before the J2s? He sure was, and I bet Day, Qualls and Shephard were too.)
I’m thinking that Carver’s wife was the creative force of the duo, since Carver’s past reputation for being methodical in plot development, pacing, and character development on Being Human were built while being teamed up with her. I’m not seeing him bringing any of that to SPN, although I will say that in the early episodes Carver wrote, he always seemed to bring up new and interesting plot lines that were never picked up on in later episodes by Kripke or other writers. Maybe I was just reading that into the scripts, or maybe it was sheer accident w/o any purposeful intentions involved.
I am still blown away that Carver could write an interesting character like Benny and side-by-side with that, have a character as poorly done as Amelia. Also, that he would take such an interesting character as Benny and turn him into a needy damsel in distress.
I could even stretch my imagination and say that he took a pathetic, emotionally unstable character like Amelia and had Sam get what he needed from her until Dean showed back up and then had Sam dump her, effectively turning Sam into a user. I could launch a serious argument for that point, but I don’t believe in it at all, so won’t even go there.
Yes, Kripke definitely had the ability to keep a season long narrative going, or maybe that was Kim Manners standing behind Kripke. I lean more towards Kim, but I’m to the point of almost…almost…longing to have Kripke back, and I never would have imagined myself even thinking such a thing after Swan Song.
Comment by Sheri — January 19, 2013 @ 9:49 am
It’s really too bad that they’re dropping Benny, which we know - because the actor is starting another series. He would have made an awesome villain - a vampir, homes
by decades in purgatory, who knows Dean and loves him like a brother. I can totally see him killing or turning all the people he thinks Dean abandons (just like him). Kevin Tran, for example. Plus lots of bystanders - but always leaving Dean alive to witness the devastation after he wakes up, knowing it’s partly his
fault for betraying his principles and betraying his friend. We might get
Purgatory!Dean and guilty!Dean back.
Comment by T1gerlilly — January 19, 2013 @ 1:15 pm
@ t1gerlilly: Ty made the premiere episode of a proposed series some time ago, but it has not been picked up by anyone yet. I can’t remember exactly what I read, but I’m thinking it was made like a year ago. The producers are just hoping to sell it at this point. If it is picked up, it’ll be quite some time before it goes into full production, so that really has no affect on his role in SPN.
Comment by Sheri — January 19, 2013 @ 2:04 pm
ty also said he is in “At least one more episode”. you know how secretive the spn set it so at least one more could be more. after all they said cas was going to be in at least 8 -he has been seen in 6 already i think. and we know his arc comes to full fruitation in the last third of the season per carver. so you can’t take what they say as gospel. i personally am hoping benny is around more than just one more episode. i love ty and jensen’s chemistry on screen. Not as good as jensen and jared’s -nobody comes close to that. but ty is good-really good. he made an impact immediately with the fans. good on him. i can’t remember the name of ty’s “pilot” episode-but it is a canadian show not american. its picking up steam fans are writing to get the show made. i am torn about it. i want ty on spn -but it would be great if he had his own show.
Comment by animal — January 19, 2013 @ 2:32 pm
@ animal: Sadly, I’m not seeing a lot of chemistry between the Js anymore. Maybe it’s the way the stories are going.
I never thought I would say this, but I am enjoying Dean/Cas and Dean/Benny scenes much more than Dean/Sam scenes this season. I think Carver making Sam such a dick is coloring my opinion, though.
If they continue to turn Benny into a needy friend always asking Dean for help, then I’m really hoping Ty gets his own show. He’s a terrific actor, and if he had been kept as Dean’s equal, like he was at the beginning of the season, then I would certainly want him on SPN for a very long time. But I’m not enjoying the needy princess thing I saw in this episode.
Comment by Sheri — January 19, 2013 @ 3:47 pm
@sheri - That’s why it would be great if Benny turned evil, but still never betrayed Dean. It would be poignant, painful and dramatic. Like Vader is bad enough - but the stakes are really amped after “Luke, I am your father”. At this point death, he’ll, and heaven hold no terrors for the boys Winchester - the only peril that counts is losing the few people in their lives that they still have and losing the best parts of themselves - Sam’s unselfishness and Dean’s loyalty.
I do have to say that if they have Dean torture Cas I will be pissed. To me that seems like the next Dickinson thing they’ll have Dean do.
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 19, 2013 @ 5:15 pm
@sheri-i respectfully disagree about j2 chemistry. the very first and the very last scene in this episode were absolutely mesmerizing. you can see both the pain and the anger both dean-jensen and sam-jared. the way they played off each other with neither one of them trying to outdo the other. just reacting-i have watched those two scenes at least 10 times already. -is that a little weird???-
i have to admit that i did enjoy cas/misha in this episode. although i still think he doesn’t know how to react off of another actor. you can tell that he has his plan on how he is going to do a scene. and since jensen is good at reacting-it looks smooth. but when misha/cas is playing off of other character ie.. naomi or alfie you can tell how forced his acting is. but yes he was very good with jensen this episode.
as for ty-yea i kinda agree with you about needy benny-however i can let that go because i like his character and his interaction with dean/jensen so much. the writers are surface writers so they had to write something for benny to have to call dean about. so they wrote peril-yea. personally i would have liked for them just to do what friends do once in a while and go have a beer or just talk. and get in a bar brawl or for gawd sakes bring benny into the hunt. i loved loved loved dean and benny hunting together. but oh well-spn is what spn is.
the days of the main arc being mentioned or acted on in every episode so we cared about it is gone. that is how kripke guided the show. (and manners) singer and carver don’t do it that way. they like to string the audience along and then have all pieces come together at the end. the only problem with that is the audience is not invested in the arc because we hadn’t seen it or cared about for so long. so we kinda loose interest. thats why i watch spn episode to episode. each episode a “movie” of itself. that way i like each episode as a standalone. i don’t watch it for answers or clues to the arcs because it just doesn’t work.
Comment by animal — January 19, 2013 @ 6:04 pm
Hey this is off topic but it just dawned on me; how come it never snows in any SPN episode? Most of the time, the boys are traveling through the Mid West so this doesn’t make sense to me. Also, the boys snowed in somewhere and trapped with some sort of monster sounds kinda Stephan Kingish to me.
Comment by roxi — January 19, 2013 @ 6:35 pm
roxi-there was 1 time last season when sam and dean were on what i think was a pier and dean was on the phone with devourox??? spelling??? forget his first name now. old man with the glasses. there was snow on the ground. not snowing though. But it would take from the budget to get a snow machine to make it snow in vancouver. just sayin.
Comment by animal — January 19, 2013 @ 6:57 pm
Yes, animal, I do see the ease of the two actors working like a well-oiled machine on some occasions. I haven’t thought Jared had his head and heart in the show up until the last two episodes, and more so in this one than at any other time this season. But being comfortable and knowing someone that you’ve played off of for almost a decade is different than chemistry. Honestly, these two guys have grown up on this show, and what I think I’m seeing is two guys whose lives have separated now that they are married, one with a family and one with a family on the way. It’s really something that is quite normal. I do think they genuinely like each other and are friends.
I couldn’t agree with your assessment of surface writers any more strongly. That’s exactly what we have; writers that have only a surface knowledge of the two lead characters and don’t take the time or trouble to dig deeper and find out what really makes them tick.
Frankly, I am beyond bored with the pounding over the head of Dean can never be happy, blah, blah, blah. They need to drop that tired song like they drop a plot on the show.
I’ve wondered, too, if it just doesn’t snow that much in Vancouver. It must not, or we would have seen more snow on the show.
Comment by Sheri — January 19, 2013 @ 9:24 pm
Kinda spoilerish, but cool!
Go down a few spaces.
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I just saw a Canadian promo for next week, and not only does Jared get dressed up along with Jensen, but Jensen’s outfit includes a long blond wig! It looks like it’s scene near the end and both guys look like they’re having a blast!
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 2:19 am
I saw the pic on fb…and it looks like a scene at the very end. I guess if Jared had gotten the Conan Barbarian role ..then thats what he’d looked like.??
Comment by ozzie — January 20, 2013 @ 11:00 am
animal–I too don’t care about the seasonal arc anymore either. To me it is because Dean/Sam have largely disappeared from the seasonal story arc except as incidental figures. They are no longer action characters in the arcs. The arcs have been either angel stories (6,8) or a mess. 6’s arc was the battle in heaven carried by Castiel’s actions and the boys as his pets. 7 really had no arc except an oh!-so-clichéd evil corporation bit with some monsters with complicated mouths. It was barely developed background to Sera’s utterly boring emofest with its depression exam of Dean and mental illness expo of Sam–neither of which had anything to do with any seasonal arc. We were expected to tune in to feel sorry for each Winchester; those two losers were so pathetic they were finally led into the main arc action by a befuddled and crazy Castiel.
I had no interest in following Castiel and the angels battle in 6, and the arc in 7 was the poorest developed, least original, and most boring of the series. The arc in 8 seems to have reverted back to the 6 pattern–apparently, if you are interested in any season story in 8, don’t look to Dean or Sam’s story for clues. Track Castiel and the angels. Not interested in that.
I did enjoy 6’s Weekend at Bobby’s, Clap Your Hands, Samarra, Unforgiven, French Mistake, and Frontierland, and 7’s Hello Cruel War, Slash Fiction, Death’s Door, and Plucky Penny. Two of the best were actually Bobby-centric episodes. The Winchesters haven’t been eliminated like Bobby, but simply shunted off from the main season arc to the side for filler episodes.
Next week has all the signs of a good episode: It is clearly a filler, not a seasonal arc episode–no angels, Dean and Sam featured, no Sam or Dean feeling sorry for themselves and begging for our pity, and some comedy. About the best we get if we tune in for the Winchesters. Dean and Sam as action heroes just isn’t a part of SPN anymore.
Comment by CaseyT — January 20, 2013 @ 11:41 am
Well, I guess I’m excited because it looks like a fun episode, and both of them look like they’re having fun.
Personally, I never understood why so called ‘geeks’ get made fun of. To me, they have the energy and the balls to have a good time and really live life, regardless of what anyone thinks of them. Even in the promo I saw, Alpha Male Dean was saying that LARPing looked awesome. I agree, if I had all my weekends off and they had something like that in my lame town, I think I’d really enjoy it.
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 11:58 am
@139 i do agree with you caseyt about sam and dean are no longer action heroes. in order for heroes to be heroes you have to have an antagonistic character who wants to hurt/kill/get rid of or deceive the hero. the winchester brothers evidently are not worth it to lift a finger to get out of the way. not by crowley and not by naomi-they don’t seem to be seen as much of a threat to the so called antagonist -crowly and/or naomi. but cas however is. he is the one the last 3 seasons that seems most important to use, abuse, try to get rid of ect…. the true hero of the spn universe. thats why i so hate the character. and thats why i am slowly -slowly slipping away from watching spn. they have me for this year but afterwards -if it goes the same as it has always gone these past 3 years. i am done. i didn’t sign up for the angel show. i signed on for the winchester brother show. i might be outvoted but whatever.
8×11 looks really really good. the brothers all dressed up as warriors. i love it. should be interesting. no angels makes this a must see for me. plus dean with long hair and sam with a pony tail OMG!!!! awsome!
Comment by animal — January 20, 2013 @ 12:00 pm
by the way-i read a report from a ratings blog the other day (not one i usually go to so i can’t remember the name of the blog) but it stated that j2 actually have only signed-signed on for s9 and that they only gave vocal for s10. anybody read that or heard of that???
Comment by animal — January 20, 2013 @ 12:04 pm
And wouldn’t it be funny too, if that princess looking chick we see in the pics was crushing on Dean, but Charlie had designs on her too, and this made Charlie competitive in ‘battle’ with Dean? That would be a situation Dean never faced before LOL!
Honestly for me, after all the crap we’ve watched so far this season, a little fun, hilarious comedy episode suits me fine. When SPN does straight comedy, they do it great. And at the end, if history is a suggestion, there will still be a serious issue that they bring out.
On an off note, I really love the color of Felicia Day’s hair. Wish I could pull something like that off, but it’s the kind of red that only works if you’re born with it.
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 12:06 pm
Oh, I forgot to mention they’re also wearing face paint!
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 12:09 pm
On a good note: the 1.99 million .9 overall (1 in the first half) rating this week was consistent with the year’s ratings. Arrow held up well also. Both were against the premier of American Idol; many thought it wouldn’t hurt; others were worried, turns out there was no reason to worry.
Comment by CaseyT — January 20, 2013 @ 1:28 pm
Count me in as one who could care less about the mytharc this season. Is there one? It’s being drippled out so slowly that I don’t even think they’ve revealed what the actual thing is yet.
There are heroes to be found in the show, but it isn’t Sam and Dean. You have to look to the support characters, like the awesome Garth and Charlie Day, if you’re looking for SPN heroes. Those characters overcome everything in the most amazing ways. They are unwittingly pulled into a quest for evil, overcome anything with aplomb, learn enough to be elevated to Bobby 2.0 master yoda hunter or miraculously never encounter anything their awesome brains and talents can’t handle, and return to their place of beginning, all true of a Campbellian hero’s journey.
The Winchesters, on the other hand, strive, struggle, try so very hard, and they never get anywhere. No matter what they do, they don’t deserve and aren’t worthy enough to find happiness or learn from their mistakes. Their Campbellian journey starts year after year, and they go nowhere, as seen in this last episode. Dean isn’t worthy of happiness and Sam can’t keep his life of true love and contentment, and so they are stuck…literally stuck…with each other and doomed to their miserable lives together.
Comment by Sheri — January 20, 2013 @ 1:35 pm
Yeah but Sheri, some of us are trying to glom unto some of the positives, like this next episode. It really does look funny and entertaining. That’s got to be better than the depressing crap we’ve seen so far.
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 1:46 pm
Apparently I’m the queen of off topic posts but anyway, guys, every time I watch ‘Rent’ I can’t help but think how Adam Pascal reminds me of Jared! Am I alone here? But ultimately, my focus there is on Jesse L Martin, easily to me the most attractive man in the film, and God, I love his singing!
Comment by roxi — January 20, 2013 @ 2:09 pm
Will, I don’t know Rent, Adam Pascal, or Jesse L. Martin, so can’t comment on that, and I absolutely hated Charlie’s character the first time we saw her and the clips look like she will again dominate the episode with all her cuteness.
But I’ll pick up on the positive. I am looking forward to seeing that guy who will be playing Henry Winchester. I don’t know him or his work, but the photos and episode synopsis sound pretty interesting.
Comment by Sheri — January 20, 2013 @ 2:41 pm
@Sheri - Please, I beg you. don’t mention Campbellian hero’s journey’s again for at least a week. I went to Arisia this weekend and went to the Hero’s Journey panel with Steven Barnes. I was hoping for a talking having to do with writing. Instead I got treated to a cockamamie theory about how the hero’s journey is tied to the bodies shakras - starting with the shakra of the sphincter - complete with diagrams, no less. Then he started trolling for chicks, or at least that why I assume he went into his six years practicing Native American sex magic. He finished that up by talking about his creative process a little bit and his ex wife a lot. And for his dismount, he talked about how to get women - in his case about how after became a science fiction writer he found fandom and “after that had a lot of fun.” It was just a total EWWWW fest. So please, I beg you, don’t remind me of it for at least a week.
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 20, 2013 @ 3:35 pm
@ t1gerlilly: Good God! I can’t imagine. In sympathy for your ordeal, I promise to refrain for a good long time. I can’t imagine sitting through that. Is he on meth or just a narcisisstic nut? I would have walked out.
Comment by Sheri — January 20, 2013 @ 4:01 pm
@Sheri - I don’t know what was up with him. But anyone who can solemly warn the just published writer in front of me “not to sell out” and then unselfconsciously talk about writing for Baywatch…is clearly irony deficient, at the very least. Besides, it was a little like watching a NASCAR crash - you don’t want to look, but then you just can’t look away…
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 20, 2013 @ 7:28 pm
What an amazing episode ‘Torn & Frayed’ is !! Well Supernatural is truly and incedibly the best show ever of course after winning two People’s Choice Awards again for the second year in a row.. And it’s really back with a big bang after the long awaiting hiatus..I love it that this episode picks up just where we left it in ‘Citizen fang’.. Dean coming to see Sam in Kermit/ Rexas after his brief phone call ..the Amelia’s fake sos call!! There is a lot of things going on in this episode.. With Cas back to rescue the poor Alfie being tortured by the ever so cruel and evil Crowley.. And also what’s going with this witch of Naomi ‘ controlling the Angels’ revealed by Alfie to Cas before he was killed…Supernatural never stop getting better and suprising us with all its new twists and turns storylines as always..Now we’ll have to wait and see what is in store for the rest half of Season 8..And I’m dying to know what is this big ‘Dark Angels secret’ that’s coming up and what really happen to Cas after he was saved from Purgatory ..what did this evil Naomi did to him??
So glad also to see the beloved brothers back together after their short seperation as usual..the Winchester Bros always stay together no matter what!!! though i feel sorry for Amelia /Sam relationship come to an end ?/ Is this really the end of Amelia??No i don’t think so..but I’m happy that Sam chose his brother rather than her..What about poor Benny!!! why Dean?? how could you end your friedship with your other half bro from purga..?? It’s not fair at all..of course he listens to his little brother and wants to please Sam by sacrifising his friendship with Benny..Did you forget that it was Benny who finds you the way out to set you free from Purga?? Come on Dean..you can tell that it was very hard for him to tell Benny that this is the end of the line for them..Too sad ..Poor Benny!! but for how long?? I’m sure this is not the last we saw of Benny and he will be back soon looking for his other half bro Dean…
Can’t wait to see Charlie back in the next ep 11 ‘ Larp and the Real girl’ ..hilarious !! This must be a very funny and light episode after last week dark & tense one …Yupiiii…Supernatural is back and rocks as always..!!
Comment by raiko — January 22, 2013 @ 5:41 am
How can you hate Sam and claim Supernatural iz your favorite show? Hmmm… Also, I’m not feeling Castiel being totally bitchified. Remember how much power/authority he once had? It’s like they’re trying to make the Cass fans start hating him. That’s it for me; I have a life.
Comment by debyvonne — January 22, 2013 @ 7:19 am
Who’s hating Sam?
Comment by roxi — January 22, 2013 @ 7:35 am
She may have been replying to Nico or orly who do indeed hate Sam. Or the other people who are calling Sam names and generally being unpleasant toward the character. Lord knows if someone says something negative about Dean, they are labeled haters so who knows? Maybe she’ll come back and tell us.
Sorry to answer for you #154
Comment by ohfandom — January 22, 2013 @ 10:22 am
Oh, God, let’s not start the “hater” thing again. People have different tastes and preferences, and neither are something that can be disputed. It is what it is. Discussing the show and the characters and giving honest opinions and debating points about opinions is fair. Calling people names for what they like and don’t like is not.
Comment by Sheri — January 22, 2013 @ 10:43 am
oh hating on the haters, nice. I hate haters. hehehe.
Comment by AW — January 22, 2013 @ 1:35 pm
156- Well, I keep getting accused of Sam hate just because I haven’t liked the way the character has been treating Dean this season. Sorry. I have complained about some of Dean’s behavior as well.
I don’t like how Sam’s being written this season, but I still like the character regardless of what some think.
As for your Dean comment well, this is the only fansite I’ve found where the character of Dean gets a fair shake. Every other site I’ve read, and I do mean every one, has a heavy Sam bias. Sam can do no wrong and Dean is either is a selfish prick holding Sam back or the character is just useless and the show should be all about Sam. So I don’t know, you might enjoy those sites better. And before somebody jumps all over me, I was not insulting anybody here, just giving my opinion.
Comment by roxi — January 22, 2013 @ 4:45 pm
Sort of spoilerish
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This next episode looks like a lot of fun. Both Sam and Dean get dressed up, and they’re both wearing face paint and Dean’s wearing a long blond wig! And from what I’ve seen, the other characters are very funny also.
Comment by roxi — January 22, 2013 @ 4:52 pm
Didn’t mention you roxi.
There were comments though from other people saying I hate Sam or words to that effect so there are people hating on Sam which may be what that poster was referring to. And that’s fine, it’s just an opinion. I won’t doubt you have seen some Dean bashing lately but I would argue that it doesn’t come close to the stuff that has been and is still being thrown at Sam over the years.
Comment by ohfandom — January 22, 2013 @ 6:21 pm
Well then, you haven’t seen the sites that I’ve seen, they hate Dean’s guts.
I didn’t think you were talking about me personally. I’m just saying that because I haven’t liked how Sam has been written this season, some have assumed that I hate him, and I don’t. All I’m saying is that just because some might complain about how a character is acting or being written doesn’t mean they dislike that character.
Comment by roxi — January 22, 2013 @ 6:26 pm
You are Absolutely Right, Roxi. As a fan of Sam I am disgusted by the way he has been written this season. It is an insult to the character. And I don’t mind saying that at all because it is true. Instead of complaining about the horrible writing attack that has been done on the character some “fans” attack the ones of us who stand up for the character and speak out against such character assasination. And then WE are accused of “hating” him. Such narrow-minded sad little people these fanatics are.
Comment by SL — January 22, 2013 @ 9:28 pm
roxi, what sites are you on that ‘hate Deans guts’? I haven’t seen any and I’d be rather interested to read what way those discussions go.
Comment by Maire C — January 22, 2013 @ 9:43 pm
I don’t want Benny to go bad!!!
*pout*
He is so cute…
Comment by Saiyasha — January 22, 2013 @ 9:58 pm
@AW so if you have chemistry with a rock - does that make it your pet rock?
Also - if you have chemistry with everyone, isn’t hat basically the same thing as not having chemistry with anyone? ‘Cause everyone is the same and no one is special? Are really just saying hat Jensen is a talented actor?
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 22, 2013 @ 11:02 pm
@saiyasha - well, if you want Benny to stick around, which a lot of us do, then he needs to have a purpose besides just being Dean’s friend - otherwise he’s going to die bloody. And if he’s cute as a good guy - as a bad guy- don’t you think he’d be sexy as hell?
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 22, 2013 @ 11:06 pm
@t1gerlilly you should never keep a rock for a pet. You should let the rock be free. Yes jensen is very talented. For someone to have no chemistry with anyone would be very sad. but they do exhist. After all without the ugly ones our beauty would not shine so bright.hahaha. At least I can make myself laugh.
Comment by AW — January 23, 2013 @ 5:38 am
@AW so if someone has no chemistry with anyone it’s because they’re ugly? So Jensen has chemistry with everyone because he’s beautiful to everyone? And your guys friends are beautiful to you? (Still not sure how the rock figures in all this - though it is true that large, sparkly rocks are very beautiful).
Comment by t1gerlilly — January 23, 2013 @ 11:31 am
@t1gerlilly chemistry has nothing to do with looks or beauty. I was just amusing myself with the bad metaphor.
Comment by AW — January 23, 2013 @ 11:59 am
@ t1gerlilly I was just saying if there wasn’t actors without chemistry we could not appreciate those who have chemistry. Ugly people can be good actors and pretty people can be bad actors.
Comment by AW — January 23, 2013 @ 12:14 pm
yea look at keanu reeves-beautifull looking man but absolutely no acting chops at all.
Comment by animal — January 23, 2013 @ 2:25 pm
hey come on what about point break bra. hehehe.
Comment by AW — January 23, 2013 @ 2:43 pm
yea yea-i didn’t say he didn’t have some great movies-matrix being his best. Neo fit keanu’s personality to a tee. so that was good. I actually liked him in point break as well-even though you had to overlook the acting -even patrick swayze wasn’t all that great in the acting part either in that movie imo. but the movie was solid so i was able to overlook the “flaws” so to speak.
Comment by animal — January 23, 2013 @ 3:07 pm
bra???? is it spelled that way or is it spelled brah???? lol. i mean neither one of the two leads in point break needed a bra. just sayin!!!
Comment by animal — January 23, 2013 @ 3:09 pm
oops sorry I am often accused of having a one track mind maybe their right after all.
Comment by AW — January 23, 2013 @ 7:12 pm
@aw-no really i don’t know how to spell it. i was just asking. i am not a surfer dude so i don’t know the language. it could be bra-don’t know.
Comment by animal — January 23, 2013 @ 7:35 pm
@animal yeah not sure myself> I seem to have misplaced my surfer to english translation app. oh well close enough.
Comment by AW — January 25, 2013 @ 8:07 am