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“Stairway to Heaven” Discussion

Post your thoughts on tonight’s penultimate episode of the season. Click HERE for my full recap or keep reading for my quick thoughts.

This was another strong episode setting up the final showdown. All of the angel suicide bomber stuff was a nice misdirect, summed up cleverly by Metatron at the end of the episode. But it was the small details of the episode that I loved the most.

 

-Cas giving Sam and Dean the FBI names Spears and Aguilera

 

-Cas failing to break down the door and saying “I don’t got it”

 

-The “Why is 6 afraid of 7?” joke, and Castiel’s assumption that it has to do with the intimidating nature of prime numbers

 

-”Only the penitent man shall pass” and Castiel’s newfound and very helpful knowledge of pop culture

 

It was nice to see Sam and Cas on an adventure since those two don’t hang out by themselves nearly enough. On the other end, the show once again brought back an old character only to kill her off, but at least Tessa got to go out with a bang.

 

Finally, it was a great double twist having Gadreel switch sides, only to be immediately attacked by the monstrous new Dictator Dean. The final scene of Dean snarling and attacking in slow motion as Sam and Cas tried to hold him back was perfect, illustrating how the Mark of Cain is turning him into an animal.

 

I have no idea where the season will end, but I trust it will be bad. Season finales always have great cliffhangers that leave the Winchesters totally screwed, so anything could happen.

News posted on May 13, 2014 Comments (212)

212 Comments »

  1. Am so angry! They are airing the Yankees- Mets game instead of the CW shows! Will have to wait until the dvd to see this episode.

    Comment by SL — May 13, 2014 @ 4:44 pm

  2. Damn you WPIX in New York!!

    Comment by JJA — May 13, 2014 @ 6:17 pm

  3. You guys didn’t miss much!

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 13, 2014 @ 6:22 pm

  4. I thought this episode was very good. It seems the blade is turning Dean into a killer.

    They (writers?) have said that the cliffhanger will be something that hasn’t been done before. I’m thinking that the cliffhanger will be either Dean tries to kill Sam, or kills Sam because of the blade.

    Comment by Valerie — May 13, 2014 @ 6:34 pm

  5. Dean will likely kill Sam. Hopefully, I will care this time next Tuesday, and I don’t say that b/c I hate Sam. But if Dean kills him, unless JP’s leaving, Sam will be back.

    I thought this episode was bad, but what else is new for me these days. Haha! Glad you liked it though, Valerie. Me and Show are on the outs right now :-)

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 13, 2014 @ 6:38 pm

  6. CW, in NY postponed the episode.
    Last week they said it would be on tonight.
    me and my friend are really upset.

    Comment by Greg K — May 13, 2014 @ 6:48 pm

  7. I don’t know about the haters but I thought this episode was one of the most exciting episodes so far! We got some AMAZING evil Dean, plenty of adorable Cas, some Dean and Sam angst, some wonderfully heart-wrenching Dean and Cas scenes….I mean, what else is there?? I give the writers of this episode major props and I can’t wait for the season final!!

    Comment by BeeBeeY5 — May 13, 2014 @ 7:22 pm

  8. I honestly don’t know how I feel about this one. I’ll have to watch it again and think about it. Mostly, I’m confused as hell.

    It looks to me like the writers just wrote all of the angels except Cas and Metatron out of the season. Gad is either dead now or will be early in the finale. Unfortunately, Gad was the only half-interesting angel this year, and his story won’t be explored any further. Metatron is the most boring, annoying, exposition-spouting character they have ever had, and it looks to me like he is set up to be around in S10 again.

    I am flat-out mad about reapers now being angels. So, Dean didn’t have to kill himself in Death Takes a Holiday and Appointment in Samarra to see Tessa, and so much for wiping out the really good Faith story (an episode I very much loved).

    Yet, I loved Dick!Dean all mad and crazy, and I thought all of his scenes brought a lot of tension to the episode. I cheered when he told Sam off. Nice follow-up scene with Cas to that one, though.

    I’m not going to make any judgment call on this one until I rewatch it, because I don’t really have a clue as to what is going on. It looked to me like the episode served the purpose of putting Cas back with the Winchesters for the finale by quickly dispatching all the angels away. There’s no loss in that, since they were boring all season. I did like Cas’ second in command one, though.

    Comment by Sheri — May 13, 2014 @ 7:25 pm

  9. I was able to find another NYCW channel so I did get to see all but the first 10 minutes of the show.

    Except for Dean becoming darker there was nothing to see here.

    The Angel story has become lamer and lamer each week and metatron is a wimpy irritating toad. Crowley is a MILLION times better as a “evil” character and I have said over and over how little I think of him. At least with Crowley I can enjoy the Actor; with Metatron the actor just makes me want to vomit.

    Castiel has been written into a weak morose being. What happened to the Powerful Angel the Winchesters called on time after time to help them? What purpose does he serve here and what can his role possibly be next season? When does the Real Castiel return? Another waste of a decent character.

    And even though Sam was right to try to restrain Dean- too little too late. He should have been looking out for his brother when it was clear to a blind person he was heading down the wrong path. But he was too busy whining and complaining and feeling sorry for himself. I hope next season the Real Sam will return to the show and be the brother I know he would be if he existed this season.

    If these inept writers have Dean kill Sam next week I will explode. Death no longer has any threat for me regarding the Winchesters so that will be such a weak stupid way to end the season. But it has been a rather weak stupid season so I guess it would fit.

    Still I am glad I got to see the episode. For reference for the other people who were denied the chance to see the show because of the baseball game if you go to the CW website you can put in your zip code and find all the other channels the CW is on. That is what I did in NJ and that is how I was able to watch the show.

    Comment by SL — May 13, 2014 @ 7:25 pm

  10. Sheri – does whoever wrote this crap episode even know that Tessa is a reaper? None of the writes seem to remember anything on this show, so maybe this writer thought Tessa was an angel so he wrote her like one. Who knows? Canon doesn’t seem to mean anything to them.

    Dean’s “dictatorship” line didn’t go over well w/me. It didn’t help that Sam stomped away like a scolded child. And then the Dean/Cas bonding follow up just felt out of place given what was just said before. Those scenes did not flow for me so I just had to shake my head. I thought it was very poorly written and badly executed. The energy went from super tense to extremely light in seconds. It felt weird.

    I also hate how Sam is dumbed down constantly to further plots. If Sam is sooooo worried and concerned about this Blade, why wouldn’t he take it and keep it w/him? Why would he let Dean get his hands on it again? Dean walked away from it in the beginning, and Sam just left it there!?!?!? Okay. Fine. But after Dean was tied up and Tessa was dead, you’d think Sam (or Cas) would have kept the Blade w/them but they just keep letting Dean take it. Hahaha! It’s all so silly.

    I cannot wait until this tragedy of a season is over. I don’t mean to crush those who are enjoying this season. If you are loving this season, that’s great. I’m not. It has been wore than last year, and last year was pretty bad to me.

    SL – I agree that Gadreel was the only halfway interesting angel this year, but he’s gone (or soon will be).

    The ending is supposed to be shocking so unless Cas kills Dean, I’m thinking Dean will kill Sam. I’m not sure why that is supposed to leave the audience in suspense all summer but whatevs . . .

    I hold out hope that Kripke will return!

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 13, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

  11. Who got drunk and decided to make angels the same as reapers?
    That makes no sense. No sense at all. Especially since now, it seems that demons can possess angels. Azazel possessed Tessa, didn’t he? And Tessa is apparently an angel.

    Everything about the episode was fine except for that glaring detail that turned all reaper lore upside-down.
    Seriously, it’s ridiculous. It makes me furious. They’ll never be able to repair that, it’s a continuity turd.

    Comment by brx — May 13, 2014 @ 7:49 pm

  12. I mean, I normally like the show. I’m not one of the usual haters. But reapers are angels now? That’s freaking stupid.

    Comment by brx — May 13, 2014 @ 7:52 pm

  13. @ Lisa1 #10: The writer of this episode was Andrew Dabb, of Bloodlines fame. He’s been a since 2010, I think. Used to write with Loflin.
    I think Dabb is always hit or miss. He wrote Road Trip and I liked that one.

    I do agree with you that the humor in this one was completely flat, as was last week’s humor. When they are trying to do a dramatic episode, they really need to stick with the tension and let go of attempts to put humor in it. Using Cas for humor in this one was a wrong attempt…but there you have the story pushing the character again. These writers believe that SPN has always specialized in mixing the humor with the drama, so they throw it in there, appropriate or not. In this one, it was not.

    Dean’s “dictatorship” line: When Dean gets in one of his moods, that’s how Dean talks. I love it when he’s all cranky. And, you know, he didn’t call Sam selfish, tell him his whole life was a waste, and disown him as a brother. Dean’s not beating Sam half to death, slurping power juice by killing a nurse, or letting loose a whole slough of unkillable monsters, or breaking down a human’s barriers to make them mental just to get someone else to stand down. Until Dean does something equal to those acts, I remain in the Dean camp.

    As for Sam; yeah, well, he was kind of like a puppy dog in this episode. That’s because Cas was there to play a role, and that role was to join the Winchesters and Cas up for the finale.

    Sam wants Dean to use the Blade, but he is dictating when and on whom the Blade should be used, more than he is worried about what it is doing to Dean. But that’s confusing, because from Sam’s dialogue, I am not sure that he realizes what the Blade is doing. Sam said that Dean seems more “tense” these days. Is that all he sees? Not real in tune with his working partner, is he?

    Now, to be more serious. Dean put Sam on notice at the end of last week’s episode that the relationship had changed…that’s when he said, “No,” there at the end of the episode. This episode, we saw how the relationship has changed. Dean knows that the Blade is the only thing that can kill Metatron (although I don’t know why only the Blade…he’s just an angel)…and Dean knows that he is the only one that can use the Blade, and he’s going to do it his way because of the changes the Blade and MoC is making in him.

    I will say that what the writers think of as “shocking” and what I think is shocking are two different things. I expect to see some action next week, but I don’t have a clue as to what Carver may hope to achieve. I’m still confused about what the whole damned season was about.

    Comment by Sheri — May 13, 2014 @ 8:24 pm

  14. To me, the only story worth watching this week was the one told by JA through his incredibly nuanced, complex, multilayered performance.
    Even his slightest of gestures, quickest of glances, most fleeting of expressions, and faintest of shifts in manner and tone spoke volumes about the internal landscape of MOC Dean. I sometimes expect the writers of an episode to “explain” this character, forgetting that no one can possibly do it better than the consummate actor who creates him.

    Comment by JT — May 13, 2014 @ 8:31 pm

  15. I don’t know about Dean killing Sam, but a thought occurred to me at the end. These writers love to bring things full circle, and have characters do what they spent all season preaching against…what if Gadreel is mortally wounded (which it looks like he is) and for some reason (admitted contrived) Sam lets him possess him again, willingly this time. Something to counter a powered-up Dean. I mean, all this “you took away my choice/evil angel possessed me” angst had to mean something, didn’t it?

    Unless it doesn’t, like Purgatory and the trials meant nothing last season. I guess we’ll see.

    Comment by G-dawg — May 13, 2014 @ 8:46 pm

  16. Sheri – is it bad that I honestly don’t remember what happened in last week’s episode?

    I know my interest is at an all-time low if I can’t remember what happened last week! Oh well . . . .

    I agree that Dean’s “dictatorship” line was way better than the crap Sam spewed earlier this year, but it just rubbed me the wrong way. It was the way he delivered the line, and the fact that Sam did nothing but stomp away. And then the lightness w/Cas . . . the whole scene felt off to me. The energy in the scene was weird, and the way Dean switched gears threw me out of the scene. I think it would have worked better if Sam and Dean had their light moment. Sam approaches Dean about the Blade. Dean gets angry and declares a dictatorship. They hear footsteps. Gadreel appears. For me, that arrangement would have worked better.

    Ahh . . . Abbadon was last week. Wow! It’s sad that I forgot she was killed. She was so underused and misused this year. Good actress, interesting character so naturally she’s murdered.

    Did anyone else find it strange that Cas was given an army, and then it was taken away in the span of two episodes? What was that? And is Metatron literally scripting what happens? Did he not think Castiel would lead other angels even though he has before?

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 13, 2014 @ 8:53 pm

  17. @15 A fascinating idea, G-dawg, and that might well happen, especially since Castiel seems to have left some Gadreel juice in Sam.

    By the way, can we trust Gadreel? In fact, do we even know that’s Gadreel? Maybe I missed something, but I got the impression Tessa had been led astray by a shape-shifter pretending to be Castiel. Is the Trickster or somebody pretending to be the Trickster still around? If so, next week, Dean may cut off the head of a fake Metatron.

    I doubt he’ll cut off Sam’s head, though–at least not if Sam is fully Sam. It seems the Blade is powered up by Dean’s fury over Sam’s being hurt or put at risk. Hence, Dean decapitated Magnus for torturing Sam; he chopped Abaddon into mincemeat after she laid a trap for Sam, as well as himself; and he went into a wild rage and sliced through the meat suit of the angel who possessed his brother’s body and used it to kill.

    Anyway, I’m glad to see Crowley’s coming back. He’s such a breath of fresh air compared to the damned, dreary angels. (Okay, he’s also damned. But seldom dreary.)

    Comment by JT — May 13, 2014 @ 9:13 pm

  18. @ JT: JA’s performance is the only thing that salvaged this script. And poor JP. He didn’t have anything to do but trail Cas around like a puppy dog, lecture Dean (which is NEVER going to work) and stomp off like the baby brother having a temper tantrum.

    @ Lisa1 #16: You know, I had forgotten that Abbadon was killed off last week, too. Wow! It looked to me like all the angels except Metatron (and maybe Gad for a few minutes next in the finale) were cleared off the board. The angel story failed this season, so I think the writers just got rid of them.

    I don’t get what any of the Metatron is writing a book is about. It makes no sense to me at all. It just seems the only way for this to end, if they carry through with the idea that this is Metatron’s story, is for the whole year to be fake, an alternate universe or a time loop or something. God, that would be just awful.

    I also don’t see any sense at all to speculating about what may be in the finale. With the writers making up their own story each week, they could come up with anything.

    I remain so disappointed that my favorite show has failed to pull off even a coherent story of some kind this season when they have two incredibly good actors and an extremely loyal fan base. There is something seriously wrong in the L.A. writing room of this show.

    Comment by Sheri — May 13, 2014 @ 9:28 pm

  19. The best thing about dictators is that when they fall (and they do fall), they fall hard…….

    Comment by Orlaith — May 13, 2014 @ 11:56 pm

  20. If reapers are angels, why Azazel was able to possess Tessa back in season 2?
    Someone should have been fired for making the reapers angels.

    I don’t know what to think about this episode. I’m just so tired of the angel storyline that I don’t care what happens to them anymore.

    ERIC KRIPKE, PLEASE COME BACK!

    Comment by emmanuel — May 14, 2014 @ 2:25 am

  21. Angels, PLEASE go away, never to come back again. Go find your own show to make mind-numbingly boring. Leave our Winchesters alone to be the stars of their own show.

    ERIK KRIPKE, PLEASE COME BACK! (if I may borrow your words, emmanuel).

    Comment by Tammy — May 14, 2014 @ 2:38 am

  22. Perfect storyline…..
    My heart stopped when Cass took the knife from Hannah’s hand and Dean gave a surprised expression..
    But why is Dean becoming a killer…? ;’(
    Can’t wait for finale…

    Comment by Warah — May 14, 2014 @ 2:50 am

  23. This Dean in the beginning was much more exciting than last week’s! When he interrogated the doctor angel “There are no other men like me!” and “Haha, stop” when Tessa yelled, “Your brother’s a psycho, Sam!” Tessa had a good moment when she was like “You were dying” *smirk*

    Was it really necessary to have Cas hesitate when he was ordered to kill Dean? I know he almost killed Sam once but in First Born Cas was supposed to have an epiphany about his history of the ends justifying the means.

    I still wanna know why Gadreel was so adamant about getting Sam as a vessel. His old one seems just fine for what he has done so far.

    The dictator scene felt off. A similar scene was better executed in The Walking Dead. Sam’s reaction didn’t feel in character especially when it was followed by him looking at Dean when it came to Gadreel.

    The ending was ridiculous! They gotta stop with that shit. I laughed again like last week. Less is more.

    I don’t believe one brother is gonna kill the other one. They have always been a special case because they won’t cross that line no matter how bad it gets.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 4:33 am

  24. There were some definite weak moments, for example, most of the “funny” lines. Cas, in particular, trying to break down the door made me roll my eyes. Overall, though I liked it. I was confused about why Tessa was being grouped with the angels, but am willing to let it go as she worked for the Angel of Death, so she could be viewed as a lesser angel, like a Cupid, or something akin to a cousin, which is why she could be possessed back in Season 2. Either way, her reasoning for being willing to die made sense to me. I’m still unclear how Metatron got everyone else to become a suicide bomber while thinking Cas was the one who wanted it. Did I miss something in the explanation there?

    @13 – why do you think Sam doesn’t realize what the blade is doing to Dean? I’m not sure he gets the full extent, but I definitely think he knows it’s doing more than making him tense. He’s not trying to take it because he knows they need it, but he clearly doesn’t want Dean just always sticking it in his pocket. Cas has said or implied several times now how it will change him, and Sam has seen Dean lose it while killing Magnus and Abaddon.

    I didn’t like the dictatorship line, but Sheri is right that that is exactly how Dean sounds when he’s pissed. It’s also the exact opposite of what Sam has been saying he wanted from Season 1, so that was annoying if not surprising.

    Great acting from Jensen (and Jared) though, especially in the final scenes. Am interested in seeing who Constantine is.

    Comment by Sarah — May 14, 2014 @ 4:41 am

  25. @18 Agreed, Sheri: “JA’s performance is the only thing that salvaged this script.” As you say, JP never had a chance. Apparently we’re back to the Winchesters being Castiel’s pets. When Sam wasn’t trailing his master around “like a puppy,” he was firmly put in third place both by the “Commander” and his alpha attack dog, Dean.

    From first to last, this episode was nothing but a slathering panegyric to Collins/Castiel by what is obviously one of his biggest fans. In case the viewer should somehow overlook the astonishing magnetism, the jaw-dropping allure of the charismatic Rasputin, Dabb surrounded him with slavish worshippers, including some bodice-rippers ready to commit mass murder and drink the Kool Aid in his mighty name. Even Metatron seemed swept away by the great Commander– envying yet yearning to be him, secretly trying on a replica of his coat, speaking wistfully to Gadreel about his enemy’s cuteness, his simple charm. If we thought Castiel was a megalomaniac in believing himself a god back in S6, Dabb was setting us straight.

    Of course, as the soon-to-be King of Heaven (move over, SN’s God), Castiel must prove his concern for even his lowliest of creatures–his dog. Thus, in the most moving moment of the episode, Potentate the Pious threw it all away–the peons, the power, the praise–for his prize pooch, Dean. (Would he have done the same for the puppy? Sorry, Sammy. This is the Cas and Dean
    Show.)

    I can’t say for sure I’ll be watching the episode again, but should I need a purgative, I’ll certainly keep it handy.

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 4:48 am

  26. I rather enjoyed this one.
    The Winchesters seemed to be competent and the episode drivers, not secondary characters in the angle show. Castiel, the Messiah, came undone; that character generating a profound following was always a joke to me. Just how a doe-eyed, monotone, whiner could become a Jesus substitute was apparently even something these writers could not go on with.
    The MOC story is predictable but a theme to get the series back into an action format, and Jensen can carry an action plot. Pity that some curse is necessary to restore Dean Winchester to a man of action, but the character has been so trashed for several seasons as the emo-king of SPN, I guess Dean, the guy in charge and ready to take on evil (the Dean who generated such fan approval) has to be out-of-character to be Dean. All too often Dean is given the role of the passive person who thinks it is superior to sit back and complain about the action of others–people who are afraid to act themselves, afraid of taking on the responsibility for leading, who want to go through life blaming the decision makers rather than risk any responsibility. To be whiney children rather than adults. Given back his action role, Jensen makes Dean someone to be feared and admired; a character who, right or wrong, does something about the evil around him rather than sits back and bemoans his and the world’s problems.
    Jensen’s action Dean makes every actor he plays with up their game. His scenes with Tessa, Sam, even Castiel sparkle–even with these writers. Jared I thought too did a fine job. To take Dean’s authoritarian verbal abuse in that “I’m a dictator” bit without lashing back was a graphic demonstration of Sam’s love for Dean, so much more effective a demonstration of true affection and caring than the so contrived Castiel choosing not to kill Dean scene. Those long facial shots of Castiel considering his options and a fearful Dean was a cheap D-level TV sequence. Did anyone except Castiel to kill Dean? No. That scene wasn’t dramatic it was laughable: not even Jensen could give that little cheap melodrama any impact.
    Sorry to see Tessa so quickly disposed of–another great character down. But this episode actually moved along at a rapid pace. Characters died rather than cried. The competent Winchesters were called in to deal with a mess. Will Dean’s actions draw criticism? Sure. But then action of humans is always a mixture of right and wrong; mature adults accept that outcome. SPN used to have at least half its episodes featuring a grown up Dean and Sam acting against evil. Not pleased to have Dean being a man of action only when under a curse, but much prefer this Dean to the oh so sensitive, befuddled, naval-gazing, wimp Sera and Carver dished up as Dean. What actions will Dean take is the question in 23–about time the key question to be answered is about at least one of the Winchesters.

    Comment by CaseyT — May 14, 2014 @ 4:56 am

  27. expect not except, damn spellchecks.

    Comment by CaseyT — May 14, 2014 @ 5:01 am

  28. JT–you are so right about the Collins worship: I’ve simply developed the ability to ignore the Castiel fan service interruptions in the series or laugh at them; they are the best laughable moments these writers give us. At least, he did not do his laundry or go to the bathroom.

    Comment by CaseyT — May 14, 2014 @ 5:09 am

  29. The dictatorship line alone should be a sign to Sam that Dean is ready for the loony bin. Not a case of brotherhood dynamics. I understand Sam needing to take a breather though. He is not gonna push for a confrontation when Dean is in that state and there is no talking to him.

    It was weird that Cas wasn’t at all like ??? after hearing what Dean just said to Sam. He was completely oblivious, it was like business as usual to him.

    I find it curious that first Dean says him and Sam are not a team but just moments later says to Cas “Well hey, you still got us” and references how the three of them have always been enough. I guess he thinks he is gonna be a drill sergeant à la John. He is probably gonna find it hard to keep Sam in line much like his old man did.

    Maybe Gadreel can gift his grace to Cas. Although I’d like a better ending for him.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 6:02 am

  30. Can someone PUHLEEZ explain to me what is with the angel reaper canon problem? Other boards’ wheels are having a serious wobble because of this, and I’m not sure I understand why. Why can’t angels be reapers, or vice versa, I am being serious here! Is canon not allowed to move forward as the story does? SPNverse changes all the time, isn’t that the whole point?

    Comment by kaz — May 14, 2014 @ 6:09 am

  31. @ Kaz: The trashed reaper mythology is not a matter of canon being moved forward. It is a matter that canon has been completely trashed, for these reasons:

    (1) In making reapers angels, the writers have now made demons stronger (lesser) than angels because reapers can now possess angels. Wouldn’t it have been so much easier to have Tessa say she had decided to work for the fake Cas because she could no longer do her job because the veil was closed and she wanted to help correct the problem, to restore the natural order?

    (2) In prior canon, before the trashing, reapers worked for Death, and Death and God were on equal footing with the possibility that Death would reap God. That was understandable, given that religions evolve, going from paganism, to Christianity, to humanism, and even with the possibility of secularism eventually taking over the belief of a God.

    (3) The last time we saw Tessa, she was all bent out of shape because Dean chose the little girl over who was supposed to die and disrupted the natural order of things. That was in line with her working for Death and him wanting to teach Dean that there is a natural order in the universe that the Winchesters had messed up by coming back from the dead. All gone now. There is absolutely no excuse that could bring back a good actor who made an iconic figure of Death in a few very short appearances. Reapers are now corporeal, eat human foods, practice free will like humans, and are warriors of God — just like the angels are supposed to be. Death as a character has been made a non-entity now.

    Comment by Sheri — May 14, 2014 @ 6:27 am

  32. San – I felt the same way about the “dictatorship” scene. I mentioned over on Spoilertv.com how it reminded me of that scene with Rick but not in a good way. In TWD scene, I was cheering on Rick establishing control over the group. That needed to happen, and those on the Internet quickly labeled it a “Ricktatorship!” Haha! We loved it!

    Here, I couldn’t get behind Dean’s words. As you said, that scene felt extremely off to me. The energy was all wrong. Dean was extremely angry and then perfectly fine with Castiel. Sam said nothing at the establishment of the dictatorship. That was completely OOC. He just stomped away like a child. It made no sense at all!

    I also thought it was obvious that Dean was going to kill Gadreel. He took too long to shake his hand and was acting real cagey! I still have to laugh at Sam letting Dean get his hands on that Blade again! That was utterly stupid! At least have Sam say he hid it or tried to keep it from Dean. I am sure they released Dean, and he just grabbed the Blade again! That’s stupid!

    On Spoilertv, someone mentioned that Sam might allow Gadreel to possess him in the next episode. I thought that would be a twist but Gadreel seems good and dead in the preview. I could see it happening though. They’ve already greatly weakened the possession story with last week’s nonsense so why not weaken it more?

    I know I should wait until next week’s episode but I’m ready to declare this season a complete and utter failure.

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 14, 2014 @ 6:37 am

  33. Did anyone else not like the Lord of the Rings and Raiders bit? I just rolled my eyes at that and thought, REALLY you can’t come with something more original than that. That on top of the Reapers being angels just bites. Not that I really care, but what happened to the other angel that was fighting Bart? Can’t even remember his name. Malaki? Just hate the angels and Metatron.

    If we have to but up with Cas, at least make him look some what intelligent. And, please, get rid of the rest of them.

    Comment by mj — May 14, 2014 @ 6:50 am

  34. @31 As you so well explain, Sheri, canon has been completely trashed. (Again!)

    SN’s Reapers seem to have been based on something like this:

    “Reapers are supernatural creatures that were created by the Archangel Ezekiel…to aid in the process of transporting souls from the physical world into the spiritual one. Reapers are neutral and do not participate in the ongoing struggle between Heaven and Hell. Reapers can, however, be controlled by an Angel or a Demon. Reapers can also be bound by a pendant and do the bidding of a sorcerer…A Reaper’s true form is that of a mist like skeleton wearing a tattered robe.”

    Apparently Dabb decided to make Tessa (and probably every reaper) an angel of death. In Jewish lore, the Angel of Death was created by God on the first day. In Roman Catholicism, the archangel Michael has been depicted as the good Angel of Death.

    I so wish EK would return and fire everyone in that Writers Room.

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 7:00 am

  35. @31 – I have to disagree with how you’re looking at Death and reapers, especially your second point. Just because Death said him and God were equal, doesn’t make it so. Death was enslaved to Lucifer. He was trapped by the Winchesters. Just because he says he’s an all powerful being who will eventually reap God doesn’t make it so. This show has been full of supernatural beings who have tried to up their importance; why would Death be any different? That’s not to slight the actor, who I think was incredible, but a simple fact of the story.

    On your third point, you seem to argue against yourself. Again, the Winchesters have messed up Death’s natural order multiple times, which would imply it’s not actually Death who is in charge, but the God who brought Cas back twice (Swan Song and Lucifer Rising) and forgave Sam, letting him into Heaven (Dark Side of the Moon). The girl Dean briefly saved is just one more example. Reapers are no more or less corporeal than they ever were. Hell, Death was introduced as loving Chicago-style pizza.

    Point is, IMO, Death can easily be seen as a top angel, with lesser angels working for him. The possession issue would then make a little more sense if you go with Azazel was a supercharged demon and Tessa was a lower class of angel.

    Comment by Sarah — May 14, 2014 @ 7:13 am

  36. @ mj: Yeah, I noticed the LotR and the Raiders Last Crusade bits. Stupid. Indiana figured out what the riddle about penitent man and duck, because he knew the meaning of the word; not because he had seen some movie and knew two movie quotes.

    But more than that, Metatron is supposed to have been an obsessed reader and now a writer, and every single quote he made in this episode was a movie reference. I guess he is more of a movie buff than Dean is.

    Metatron supposedly isolated himself from humans for a couple of thousand years, yet he uses current TV dialogue of “nerd” and accusing Cas of trying to be “popular” and calling Dean on using B-grade 80′s action movie lines. WTH, Dabb!

    Cas looks like the dumbest angel in the barricks. He spent years learning about free will, and then mis-used it because he didn’t understand it, but all but his followers seem to have acquired free will, pop culture, and all humans traits in a few months — well, except Cas’ followers, who now have DNA and none of them are wavelengths of celestial frequency any longer.

    And could anyone tell me what Metatron’s five-minute dialogues added to the story? Did he give any understanding of what the hell is going on?

    What a mess!

    Comment by Sheri — May 14, 2014 @ 7:23 am

  37. @Lisa1. Yeah, in Rick’s case it was more like you know what’s out there, think you can do better then leave.

    Dean’s line about being the only one who can kill Metatron was delivered in a way that felt off. It was meant to be clipped but it reminded me of an angry housewife ready to backhand someone or something like that. I get Sam’s impulse to leave but I would have expected him to challenge Dean a little bit like “Are you listening to yourself?” Instead it was more like Sam was displeased by what he was hearing but a little while later gave Dean the go-ahead when it came to Gadreel. The stuff that was coming out of Dean’s mouth needed a bigger reaction than Sam reaching his limit and being so fed up he couldn’t be in the same room anymore. Maybe amp up Sam needing to back off because clearly Dean can’t be reasoned with or have Sam try to get Dean to see how he is acting.

    “Yeah I lied but you were being an infant.” Now it’s as explicit as it can get that the mark has made Dean see Sam as inferior – especially considering that in the beginning of the episode Dean positioned the situation as “we decided” and Sam asked in a very reasonable manner that the blade wouldn’t be used. I was expecting to see a softer approach to Dean’s change like him seeing Sam more as a little brother that he has to keep on the straight and narrow. But the temperament makes sense.

    Re: “Dean was extremely angry and then perfectly fine with Castiel.”

    Maybe they are trying to portray it as Dean having a scary on/off switch (like some real life killers have) and how Sam is the recipient of Dean’s aggression? But the scene felt weird to me, too. Cas at least should have been more disturbed.

    I agree that it was obvious Dean was gonna stab Gadreel when he offered to shake hands. I guess it was to establish that Dean has no honor anymore?

    And maybe Metatron was behind Cas’ moment of hesitation regarding Dean when Cas had the angel blade.

    I still think something could be revealed about Sam’s grace because Cas seemed to be lying in First Born. But maybe it was put there because the writers didn’t know if they wanted to go that way so it could end up meaning nothing.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 7:24 am

  38. Favourite lines:

    “I just don’t get this Cas love-fest either.”
    “He’s like a mentally deficient puppy.”

    You said it, Metatron!

    Rewatched it. Maybe the episode was okay as far as pacing, action, etc goes, with weak moments (like Sam not taking the blade away, the reaper canon-trashing, etc), but I’ve started disliking the angels so much that I just can’t enjoy a whole episode about them, however interesting they might make it. And I guess this is what the finale is going to be about… Cas, Metatron, portal, angels, heaven, Gadreel.

    Oh and as for our supposed heroes of the show, their big connection to this big story is that Cas asks them for help???

    Oh well, at least it had some cool Dean moments.

    Comment by Tammy — May 14, 2014 @ 7:25 am

  39. It is too late to save this (mostly) awfull season, but the last 2 episodes were decent at least.

    It was too easy to notice that they wanted Castiel to leave his team to get back with the Winchesters. If he really cared about his folowers he would have tried a little harder to convince them that he didn’t send those bombers.

    It has been said a lot, but I am really angry about what they did to Tessa. She is an angel now? Lol. They completely ignored the storyline (except for her telling Dean that she could hear the lost souls). The whole time I was waiting for Dean to ask her wat happened to her being a reaper.. but he didn’t. And again, they brought back an interesting character just to kill her off. It’s a shame. And they made her ‘bad’ also, working for Metatron.. why?

    As for Castiel, I thought he was great in this episode. The scene were he couldn’t kill Dean was great. And the conversation with Dean in the bunker was really good, it seems that Dean and Cas, even if they are both not really themselves, still would die for another.

    Now about Sam… okay I’m done. He didn’t add anything to this episode, it was about Metatron, Dean and Castiel. He got lectured by his big brother and he kept his mouth shut.

    Gadreel, I really hope he isn’t dead and that at least in the final he plays a role. I’m with Sheri 100% that Metatron is one of the most boring characters ever, on the same level as Kevin Trans mother.

    I still think they are having too much in 3 episodes, they could have used more episodes, because now it’s getting rushed again. But I’m really looking forward to the finale and I hope that Cas will get his grace back or at least some powers, and that Metatron will be killed. Also hope that Crowley will stick around next season as well. Of course, the MoC will be the most important thing in the finale, and since the writers are going to do something different, Dean killing Sam is very likely. But JP won’t leave the show so he will be back next season, so it wouldn’t be a very good cliffhanger. This episode has shown that Dean won’t hurt Cas, and he is also confirmed for season 10. So I have no idea what the cliffhanger will be, but I hope that it’s either something really worth waiting for, or that there is no real cliffhanger at all, like season 5 (it was an ‘ending’) and that they start again fresh next season with a good storyline.

    Comment by Robin — May 14, 2014 @ 7:27 am

  40. Ps. Sheri, the two lines I quoted above were the only ones by Metatron that made sense to me.

    I can’t believe what a mess this is turning out to be. They’re just not being consistent in anything. Canon, Dean’s reactions (I mean, he should be either angry and crazed, or calm and ‘fine’, but not both in the space of two seconds), Sam (is he worried about his brother or not?), Cas, anything. The entire show is all over the place, or so it seems to me.

    Comment by Tammy — May 14, 2014 @ 7:34 am

  41. No, Sarah. Reapers are NOT angels. They never have been. The guy who changed them into angels last year basically admitted it was a mistake. I can’t remember the series of tweets, but people pointed it out to him and he went on the defensive.

    We saw in IMTOD how reapers looked. Tessa even mentions that she changed her form so Dean wouldn’t run from her. Dean’s eyes didn’t burn out from seeing her b/c she was not an angel. A poster on Spoilertv.com pointed put how Tessa was afraid of angels in S5. Why would she be afraid of angels if she was one herself? The past canon established that one had to be dead or dying to see a reaper. That’s not the case for angels.

    They wanted her, and since the reaper lore had already been trashed, they didn’t bother to explain her new status as an angel. Now, why they wanted the return of this particular character is not clear since her role could have been played by anyone. Dean didn’t seem particularly saddened or troubled by her suicide. Neither did Sam so what was the point?

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 14, 2014 @ 7:46 am

  42. @JT:”I so wish EK would return and fire everyone in that Writers Room.”

    You just discribed a wet dream to me. Can you imagine it? Man, I would pay money for that to happen…

    @Sarah, reapers are not corporeal, but they can become corporeal. Reapers didn’t need to take a vessel, they simply could change their form, but that goes against everything we know about angels, who need vessels in order to interact with humans. Besides, that’s not the main problem. The problem is that reapers are supposed to be neutral. By making them angels, the writers are taking such a fundamental aspect away from them. Are we supposed to believe that a reaper can be a “freelancer” and Death would allow it? It’s ridiculous, it goes against everything a reaper is supposed to be.

    And dammit, they killed Tessa!! Who would have thought back in season 2 that Dean was gonna kill the one who tried to reap him when he was at the hospital? But it hurt how OOC she was, so maybe it’s better this way.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 14, 2014 @ 7:48 am

  43. @42, emmanuel–HA! I’d pay money for that to happen, too. But I’m afraid even Bill Gates couldn’t save us from the finale. I’m convinced Dean’s line about Castiel’s mass murder of angels and humans was intended to come back to bite him. My guess is we’ll see Dean outdo even Castiel in his slaughter of innocent people.

    In this way, the writers hope to “redeem” Castiel–apparently by assuming viewers will forgive and forget Dean’s homicides, so the angel’s should be water under the bridge, as well. This is typical Hollywood thinking. Any unlawful, immoral act–even murder–can be shrugged off as a “mistake,” as long as person who committed it is popular.

    Of course, Dean’s horrific killing of innocent people will provide endless opportunities in S10 for Castiel to sit toe to toe with remorseful Dean , comforting him as they talk about their “mistakes.”

    I fear that, after nine years, SN’s screwed up writers are about to deprive Dean of his heroic stature once and for all.

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 8:56 am

  44. I know that there were a lot of disconnections and canon screw ups during last couple seasons but I think fandom is blowing it out of proportion. Its damn TV show, not a PhD dissertation. And seeing B. Edlunds tweet yesterday where he confirmed that he is not coming back to SPN AND apologized for Grand Canyon canon hiccup made we wonder how much hate he got for that. One year and one different show later he still remembers. Who would want to go back to this kind of appreciation?

    Comment by AAA — May 14, 2014 @ 9:25 am

  45. @37 San Summer, maybe Dabb intended that Dean’s stabbing of Gadreel was dishonorable, but I thought it was great. Not only did Gadreel use Sam’s body to viciously kill Kevin, he also murdered plenty of other humans taken over by the rotten angels. (How come demons never get a pass for possessing human “meat suits.” but angels are considered “victims” when they die along with the “vessels” they stole?) in addition, I wouldn’t have trusted Gadreel for another two steps into the room. He worked for Met, seemed okay with betraying him to work for Castiel, went back to working for Met, then arrived at the bunker offering to work for Castiel. Chances are, he was instructed by Met to go to the bunker. But, wherever his loyalties were placed for the moment, he deserved what he got from Dean.

    Anyway, I doubt Gadreel’s dead; the character seems to have achieved enough popularity for the writers/producers to keep him alive till next season.

    By the way, I’m confused. I thought the bunker was protected from angels as well as demons. If it isn’t, why isn’t it? It seems crazy to me that the brothers would have left themselves open to an intrusion by Abaddon or one of her thugs–not to mention Metatron or Gadreel. Did I miss something?

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 9:40 am

  46. @44 AAA, I’m sorry about Edlund; his scripts too campy for my liking sometimes, but he’s a truly excellent writer–actually the best in the Writers Room, I thought. What was the Grand Canyon canon hiccup?

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 9:46 am

  47. That’s WERE too campy…Sorry. Gosh, considering the dreadful quality of most of this season’s scripts, what’s going to become of SN now that the best of the writers is leaving?

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 9:50 am

  48. So let me explain what happened in the writing room.

    Since the writers have such a fetish with killing-off characters, there were NO CHARACTERS left alive to bring back from Dean’s past. Thus, they had to twist the reaper lore AND treat us fans like a bunch of idiots (thinking we simply forget Tessa’s real story), thus make Tessa an angel to fit into their story outline.

    Firstly, only the DEAD can see a reaper. Reapers do NOT assume physical form. In all 3 episodes where we saw Tessa before, the boys were dead or in a coma-type state.

    Second, Reapers are NOT angels. They NEVER were angles. In fact, back in season 4, Tessa warns Dean about the angels and their plans.

    Comment by JJA — May 14, 2014 @ 10:10 am

  49. Ben Edlund tweeted yesterday:

    ben_edlund ‏@ben_edlund · 22h
    Also — sorry about Grand Canyon gaff in last episode I wrote — that dropped ball of canon was mine to carry

    I wished the other writers **cough**Glass **cough** had this much class.

    Comment by Sheri — May 14, 2014 @ 10:21 am

  50. what is a “Grand Canyon gaff” he’s referring to?

    Comment by JJA — May 14, 2014 @ 10:46 am

  51. @47Exactly my point.
    And here go another news: TNT developing sequel to Stephen Kings “Firestarter” written by..Robbie Tompson. Looks like we are going to lose another decent writer soon.

    Comment by AAA — May 14, 2014 @ 11:00 am

  52. @50 – He had Sam drunkenly refer to a ‘trip to the Grand Canyon’ in a throw away joke (can’t remember the ep) when it was clearly stated way back in season 2 by Dean that “all this back and forth across this country and I’ve never been to the Grand Canyon.” It was a point made that should have been remembered. They could’ve used any place for Sam’s joke about a donkey ride, but he specifically used the Grand Canyon which the boys had never been to. It was actually one of the first big canon gaffs that ever really annoyed me cuz it took me right out of the moment while my brain went “Huh? But they never went to the Grand Canyon”

    Comment by SueP — May 14, 2014 @ 11:09 am

  53. Seriously? The Grand Canyon is what we should be upset about? LOL

    Comment by JJA — May 14, 2014 @ 11:41 am

  54. @53 It WAS upsetting actually. As them not going to the Grand Canyon was a ‘thing’, established in season 2. So the moment in season 8 was very unsettling. Like “Huh! That’s all wrong, they never went there!”

    However, we have far bigger canon-trashing issues to be upset about now. unfortunately. :( We can’t even get our regular boys, just SamnDean, being brothers and fighting evil together, which is all I want really.

    Comment by Tammy — May 14, 2014 @ 12:03 pm

  55. @JT. Yeah, I’m not shedding tears for Gadreel but they could have used him to their advantage whether he was a good guy or a bad guy. Dean’s move seemed calculated so it blurs the lines when it comes to the mark and the blade making him lose control. What they have showed of Dean makes me now understand Colette better. I thought it was weird when she stopped Cain from going after Abaddon by saying “No, there’s been enough killing. Promise me. You’re better than all of this.” I suppose she knew that once Cain would start, there would be no stopping him. Hence what Dean just did.

    I wanna see Gadreel and Sam have a chat about the possession. Also the whole garden bit is still a mystery.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 1:08 pm

  56. Did anyone else hear the doctor angel say Flagstaff when she told her name? That could’ve set something off in Dean considering his reaction to Sam’s heaven memory.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 1:51 pm

  57. @ JAA #53: The whole point was Dean asking Sam to go to the Grand Canyon was in S2 (Croatoan 2.09) when Dean was reeling from John telling him if he couldln’t stop Sam, he would have to kill him. The episode ended on Dean telling Sam that right before John died he told him something (I can’t remember if there was a hiatus at that point or not), but in Hunted 2.10, Dean told Sam and was begging for begging Sam for some time to think things through and get his head in the right place. Sam took off that night instead and Dean was looking everywhere for him.

    So, yes, it WAS a big deal; a very emotional time in the show for the Winchesters and Edlund had been there since the beginning. At the time Edlund screwed it up, it was when the fans were complaining heavily about trashed canon and it was getting pretty apparent that Edlund had lost interest in SPN. I actually thought Ben giving the middle finger to the fans, so I welcomed him accepting responsibility for his screw-up. It must have weighed heavily on his mind as a real black spot on his writing talent.

    Comment by Sheri — May 14, 2014 @ 1:58 pm

  58. My prediction for the finale shocker-Dean commits suicide after killing Metatron. Tessa was a foreshadow of it.

    I thought this episode was disappointing (I am trying to be nice here). The Metatron drooling over Cas at the beginning of the episode. Was just…….. The line cas said about ” they like to hear me say their names was just ……… The angel woman that Dean attacked because she said almost exactly what Sam said to Dean about not being a hero how he doesn’t save people but is a killer was just …….. Tessa dying-Gawd Carver is killing off every good support character that ever graced SPN in the Kripke years. Yet they leave us with Castiel/Collins. Who can’t do comedy at all. He can bounce off Jensen Ok but MY gawd collins is horrible.

    The scene where Sam is trying to pick the lock and Cas comes in like Mr. all know it all-I am god like so get out of the way thing was just…….. There were so many of these just…….moments in this episode. I threw my shoe. softly. didn’t want to break my Tv.

    Dabb needs to be fired. Thompson needs to be fired. They both have hard-ons for Cas/Misha which results in The Winchesters looking like idiots and non entities of importance. They have ruined what this show used to be. I couldn’t believe I was watching SPN starring Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles. I remember both of them stating they didn’t want this show to be a statement about religion when the angels were introduced -wow have we gotten there.Thats all this show is now-religious rewrites and statements and trashing.

    I did totally enjoy Jensen’s Dean in this episode. Man the man brings it no matter what the damn writers give him. He and the actress who played Tessa are friends in real life and their chemistry on screen was undeniable. Too bad they killed her off. Or should I say they made Tessa a weak minded angel/reaper whatever who committed suicide. Yea- right- OK.

    Disappointment. yea sigh!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by animal — May 14, 2014 @ 2:09 pm

  59. Also this scene near the end of season 3 (Ghostfacers):

    Sam: Well, it’s 12:04, Dean. You good? You happy?

    Dean: Yeah, I am happy.

    Sam: “Let’s go hunt the Morton house,” you said, “it’s our Grand Canyon.”

    Dean: Sam, I don’t want to hear this.

    Sam: You got two months left, Dean. Instead, we’re gonna die tonight.

    [Sam picks up a chair and smashes it against the sealed front door.]

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 2:10 pm

  60. Animal (#58): Interesting idea of Dean killing himself. But it still has the same problem I would have if Dean killed Sam (and that better Not happen)- they have died so many times death means nothing on this show anymore. There has to be something better than that. Well, maybe not. The writers do suck.

    Comment by SL — May 14, 2014 @ 2:13 pm

  61. Agree SL, Sam and Dean died so many times in this show, they always come back.. whether it´s from hell, heaven, purgatory, lucifers cage. I really hope they come up with something more original this time. One of them dying or disappearing has been done to many times already.

    Comment by Robin — May 14, 2014 @ 2:26 pm

  62. @SL -well I figure that the SPN ptb alternate between the brothers on who is dying or who is left in more peril in the season finale. Sam was in trouble last year. So it has to be Dean this year. I am figuring that in order to get rid of the MOC and render the blade useless -what better way than kill the one that is possessing the Mark with the Blade it controls? And ONLY the one that possesses the Mark can control the blade. I think Dean will fall on the blade so to speak the same way his reaper did. Sam may try to stop Dean but I am betting on Dean being immortal (due to Cain (and the show) making sure we saw the knife going into Cain in First Born and not having any effect on him.

    Wasn’t it kinda of weak that Dean had enough strength to pull himself off the wall against a Knight of Hell yet angels were able to overpower him and tie him up?? He broke chains yet he couldn’t break out of his binding in this episode??? just so …………..

    Yes the writing sucks big time. Fan service is not the way to write a fantastic show. Its a quick way to make a joke of the show. and that is what SPN is now. I am so hoping s10 is the last. If Jensen is smart he will leave when Singer leaves. Which is after 10. Jared should follow suit.

    Comment by animal — May 14, 2014 @ 2:32 pm

  63. @animal. I don’t think Dean broke the chains, Crowley let him out. Why do you think the guys should follow Singer? I think Singer has a lot of influence on the show yet people generally put things on Carver.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 2:40 pm

  64. @San-you need to go look at the scene again-Crowley gave Dean the blade and then Dean broke out. Crowley didn’t have power in that house. Look at the chains they were broken.

    As for Singer. I have blamed Singer quite a bit especially for the wreck of a season last year was. Singer has been there since day 1. Partners with Kripke. They had the vision together. He likes J2 and respects their opinions. Carver does not and once Singer leaves Carver won’t be tied down to the origins of the show anylonger. Spn will loose its identity totally once Singer leaves. Jensen has been hurt with the writing as it is-Put Carver out there with no handcuffs and Jensen’s Dean will be unrecognizable. And Jared’s Sam will be a nonentity. The Cas/Angel show is what it will become. (well more so than it is now).

    Comment by animal — May 14, 2014 @ 2:50 pm

  65. I wonder what they a going to do with MOC in season 10. Dean can’t get rid of it by himself even passing it to another “worthy”, right? It still stays. So since Pelegrino is jobless now could they revisit Lucifer as the one who actually can remove the mark?
    And I have no idea about what they came up with in season finale…I hope its not predicable dead/undead scenario for one of the brothers. Although in preview Sam point his gun on someone and Dean is flying high after Metatron exploded in his face.

    Comment by AAA — May 14, 2014 @ 3:05 pm

  66. @animal. It was not shown. First Dean sees Crowley. Then the camera stays on Sam until there is a clang of the chains hitting the floor and suddenly Dean is behind Magnus. I guess one can interpret that as Dean hulking out but they didn’t show him getting out of the chains.

    I’m not as optimistic about Singer as you. He has his wife as a writer although she was behind episode Route 666 which was made fun of on the show if I remember correctly. Kripke didn’t bring her back after that. It has been pointed out that the next episode she was part of writing was in season 7 when Singer’s role had become considerably bigger.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 3:11 pm

  67. So if they apologized for the Grand Canyon faux pas, will they apologize for thinking we’re too stupid to realize reapers are NOT angels?

    The Grand Canyon issue strikes me as small potatoes, which could easily be corrected with a few lines of dialogue in some subsequent episode.

    Comment by JJA — May 14, 2014 @ 3:34 pm

  68. I’m mixed on this ep. Some things worked for me, others didn’t.

    Oh, and my Tumblr dash exploded with Destiel after this ep. and I didn’t think I even followed that many Destielers. So ugh there. Cas’ love for Dean is canon. Pop the champagne bottles for those invested in that part of the story.

    I think, to start, I’m in the boat that’s done with the angel SL. I’m curious about Gadreel but still can’t quite get into Metatron or the angel factions. I’ll bet anything that’ll go in to S10 somehow too…

    Dean- still holy crapping over Dean! I’m excited to see where he ends up in the finale, because he’s pretty well over the edge now. He barely cares who he’s killing, and I think it’s almost inevitable that someone’s about to get the knife that doesn’t deserve it. Since he seems to mostly find Sam a burden at this point though, I wonder why he’s even bothering with a “dictatorship?” Does he find Sam useful or an “infant?”

    One thing that clunked for me was the scene where Cas and Sam were discussing Dean. I was wondering if the actors accidentally swapped lines? Cas, who was A-okay with Dean torturing an angel, like, literally two days ago is now “worried?” Sam, who’s been visibly worried for weeks and has been trying to discuss all this with Dean, only says “He’s been tense?” Wha?? I’ve been SO wanting an end to Silent Sammy, as he’s clearly been worried. Why can’t he actually talk to someone about all this?

    So I’m still a bit confused on Cas right now. I can’t put my finger on it, he just seems inconsistent from one ep to another and even one scene to another. He seems to have done a bit of a turnaround between last ep. and this one, and again, we’re only talking a day or two’s difference here.

    Then Dean’s spiel to Sam! I actually didn’t take issue with Sam walking away after Dean’s “Dictatorship” spiel, especially since it doesn’t seem like he went very far for very long. He was back right after Dean’s convo with Cas. Dean was channeling some serious John Winchester there, and the stuff he was saying must have been immensely “triggeriffic” for Sam, who has always chafed under that kind of control and at being the “useless little brother.” Dean just described what is likely a nightmare scenario for someone like Sam- a forced march of a hunting life with the new John Winchester, who will never take him seriously or treat him remotely with respect. Sam could have reacted pretty ugly to that, and Dean seemed beyond reasoning anyway, so I’ll take Sam stepping away for a few minutes to calm down, a la PONR. Then he came back to “continue the battle,” by trying to stop Dean from diving after Gadreel. Sam still hasn’t left and still hasn’t given up, though I do wish we could hear more from him.

    @San Summer- you mentioned you were confused about Dean’s “bipolar” moment switching between Sam and Cas at the end? One theory I’ve seen already is that Dean is being more manipulative than he’s letting on. He’s whipping Sam in line with his new reality, but Cas can just bugger off if he wants, or still potentially stop Dean in ways Sam can’t, so Dean’s playing nicer with him. Alternatively, Dean was inclined to take it easy on Cas because Cas had just put up a huge sign of loyalty to the Winchesters and to him in particular. OR, the MOC can be making Dean just that emotionally erratic. OR, Sam is getting a special level of Dean rage because of everything that’s happened between them and the whole “fratricide” angle of the MOC. Take your pick? :p

    Additionally, I don’t think Dean “normally” views Sam as “inferior.” I do think, in the past Dean has had to walk a delicate line as Sam’s capabilities have been variable depending on which supernatural entity he was currently fighting with, and his protectiveness of Sam can read as “not trusting Sam” (precisely Sam’s problem a lot of the time). But I think Dean’s TRYING to make Sam out to be inferior now, more than he actually means it. If Sam is a capable hunter and moral checkpoint who knows his brother all too well, Dean has a harder time reasonably tuning him out about lying or his increased violence. If he convinces himself that Sam is just being “an infant” about everything (in tandem with “Sam doesn’t give a damn about me anyway”), it’s easier to dismiss Sam’s objections and keep going as he is.

    Can’t believe it’s all over next week! I hope at least some of this comes together, and I hope we get at least some gesture of reconciliation for the brothers, even though I assume Dean’s dark arc will continue into 10 at this point.

    Comment by Jaytee — May 14, 2014 @ 4:17 pm

  69. @San-Crowley had no mojo in that place. He had no key-so how could he possibly free Dean. The blade was on the floor infront of Dean. The only logical explanation was Crowley gave Dean the blade-Dean bulked out (the scene prior to Crowley coming into the room was Dean pulling on the chains-forshadow) and then Dean broke the chains and freed himself.

    Comment by animal — May 14, 2014 @ 4:41 pm

  70. To clarify: I know Sam didn’t “return” so much as “found freaking Gadreel.” When I say “came back,” I meant mainly that he dropped the argument and returned focus to working/dealing with Dean (looking at him during the Gadreel thing, trying to stop him from lunging).

    Comment by Jaytee — May 14, 2014 @ 5:00 pm

  71. @Jaytee. You are right, I have also read speculation that Dean was being manipulative. I think that Dean kind of puts up a face he thinks is appropriate. Cas is doing what Dean wants so Dean is cool but Sam is questioning him which earns Sam dictator Dean. Also when Dean asked how much time Cas has before his grace burns out, he seemed suspiciously casual about it. It came off more like “How long are you gonna be useful to me?”

    Why is Cas acting so meek? It seems like he is looking for approval from Dean but it should be obvious to him that it’s meaningless considering the state Dean is in.

    To me the line “in love…. with humanity” was unnecessary. It was weird to me also because just the day before I had read a theory that the ingredients Metatron needed for his spell dealt with love on way or another so he needed grace from an angel who was in love with Dean/humanity. And then the very next episode has a line like that… But I think the writing acknowledged also the more “hater” side of the fandom when it came to Castiel :D I’ve seen Asstiel before, I’ve seen people call Cas the most retarded angel which fits Metatron’s description of Cas as a mentally deficient puppy.

    I also wonder what Dean’s deal with Sam is at this point. Dean has always been about family but this is so far from it. Now he doesn’t even see Sam as an equal hunter. If Sam left, would Dean flip out? His dictator speech didn’t really indicate “my way or the highway”. It was more like Sam just needs to shut up and do what he is told. I wonder if Dabb deliberately had Dean call Sam an infant considering he wrote Road Trip where Crowley said about Sam “That’s why you’re here, isn’t it? The poor giant baby’s in trouble again, isn’t he?” and Dean didn’t appreciate it at the time (“Are you done?”).

    I’m also fine with Sam getting out of the room. Dean had turned his back on Sam indicating that the “discussion” was over so I suppose Sam saw that there was no point. (Especially when Cas was more than ready to befriend Dean, blegh.) Might as well drop off his bags. For a moment I actually thought Sam might go outside.

    Comment by San Summer — May 14, 2014 @ 5:05 pm

  72. My biggest concern about this episode is the way the writers set things up for the season finale next week…

    Am I the only one still waiting for the big reconciliation between the brothers after Sam’s speech in “The purge”?? Or are the writers seriously intending to leave that one unexplained?
    After the more than obvious parallels between the brothers’ relationship and the ghost hunters in the thinman-episode, I was expecting some type of heart-to-heart moment between the brothers where Sam finally SHOWS Dean that he still cares for him and actually would save him (if it wasn’t against his own will)
    But after I watched the latest episode today and the promo for the finale, I am almost willing to bet that the issue will AGAIN not be addressed and simply forgone by more “pressing” matters like the Moc.
    This is very disappointing, since my main reason for watching the show has always been the brothers’ bond. And while I always thought tension in their relationship was good to build up the suspense, I don’t get the point of tension if it is never resolved…

    Why is Sam for example not addressing Dean’s brutality and anger issues (more directly), when it is so obvious that he thinks something is off with his brother? Or why did Sam not specify what the “real” problem was when Dean said he was poison and that he got everybody killed?
    And now in the last episode we got the whole “this is a dictatorship” phrase, which caused Sam to simply storm off??
    Why can’t they just freakin talk to each other for once?^^ Or fight, or cry, or hug…I don’t know- just SOMETHING!

    Don’t get me wrong, I still love the show and I am watching because I think J2 are amazing actors, but I simply think it is sad how they have reduced the brotherly relationship to nothing but half-finished conversations that last about 1 minute at the end of each episode and do NOTHING for the storyline or their current issues with each other.

    Now I am willing to take a guess and say that Dean will either kill Sam or himself (in an attempt to save Sam from himself) in the season finale next week. And I really don’t know where that will lead us in season 10. But it’s gonna break my heart for sure >_<

    Apart from that, I was wondering if anybody else felt like the writers were trying to purposefully get rid of the returning guest stars this season?
    Think about it,
    first Garth(becomes werewolf/marries), then charlie (Ozz), then Jodie (walks off with Alex)and now they even killed off Tessa?
    I was wondering if it had something to do with season 10 potentikally being the last season?
    Maybe they want to narrow down the number of guest stars for next season to have less stand-alone episodes and focus more on the Winchesters again?

    Comment by catastrophy — May 14, 2014 @ 5:15 pm

  73. Count me as someone else comepletely fed up with half finished conversations that just end at absurd points… and are not addressed for week upon week upon week… and often not truly addressed at any point. Do the writers think this is good writing? It’s terrible.
    Both JA and JP are capable of really delivering good dialogue… but when is the last time it has been given to them? What could possibly be the excuse for this?

    Do the writers think it creates suspense when the brothers start a conversation, but are only allowed to use a few half finished sentences and then for no fathomable reason, the conversation cuts off just when someone says something that could be promising or interesting?
    Who stops the conversation just when something interesting comes up? No one, ever… well, except in the mind of a hacky soap opera writer.

    It creates absolutely no suspense when the viewers have seen it happen time after time after time with no quality follow up. If there is never to be expected any quality follow up, there is no point in caring about it.

    Give the actors some solid, genuine, interesting dialogue! PLEASE!
    Let the brothers speak like actual people, like actual brothers. There’s a thought.
    No more half finished, half-assed, half-baked, half-witted conversations!

    Comment by Gerrie — May 14, 2014 @ 5:52 pm

  74. @Catastrphy #72 — when have the writers NOT tried to get rid of returning guest stars?

    Like I said above, Supernatural writers have a fetish for killing of characters, except for Castiel and Crawley (and, to their credit, they did keep Bobby alive for 7 seasons). Otherwise, it’s a miracle if anyone makes it past 5 episodes.

    Comment by JJA — May 14, 2014 @ 5:55 pm

  75. @54 Tammy, I’m confused over the outcry about the Grand Canyon. As you say, in S2 Dean said he’d never been there. But if Sam indicated they’d been there in the later episode, why would that be a problem? Maybe they took a vacation and didn’t tell us.

    @58 animal, love your review! and
    @64 if Carver’s a big Castiel fan, do you suppose that’s why the show runner has been tearing the brotherly bond to shreds? Last night, Dean said something about it having always been “the three of us” solving problems in the past. So maybe Carver plans to forget the focus on the Winchester brothers and turn the series into The Three Mouseketeers. (NOT a spelling mistake) with little or no more mention of the familial relationship between Sam and Dean. I’d hope that Carver would leave SN, but I’m afraid somebody like Adam Glass or worse would be put in his place.

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 6:45 pm

  76. @73 Excellent post, Gerrie. In S1, the dialogue was terrific. Now, as you point out, it’s “half finished, half-assed, half-baked, half-witted.” I think it’s because these writers can’t think of anything substantial for the characters to say.

    Comment by JT — May 14, 2014 @ 7:11 pm

  77. @31 Sheri
    Thanks so much for the explanation. The grand Canyon issue hasn’t died down, so I guess canon is taken very seriously in fan land . This is the first series I have followed, so am still learning. I just feel, 9 seasons, new show runners and writers, surely a few mistakes can be overlooked especially in Edlund’s case, who gave us a few of the best episodes in the series imo.

    Comment by kaz — May 14, 2014 @ 11:14 pm

  78. Sam should just tell Dean to eff off. What a dick Dean has become.

    Comment by samfan — May 14, 2014 @ 11:25 pm

  79. @Gerrie @73: My thoughts exactly! Specially if the two people who are arguing are together ALL THE TIME! It makes no sense, NO ONE behaves like this in real life, it’s not believable. It’s bad writing, plain and simple.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 15, 2014 @ 1:47 am

  80. @75 JT, thing is, Sam, in season 8, was talking about their visit to the Grand Canyon AS CHILDREN, with John. So it just didn’t fit. It was a pretty WTF moment if one remembered the whole season 2 Dean asking Sam to go with him thing! Esp, as Sheri pointed out, it had come just before the very emotional conversation of Dean revealing what John had said about saving Sam or killing him. But as we all know now, so much more important canon has been trashed, but this was directly related to the brothers past canon.

    @72, 73. God, yes! We’re all sick and tired of their inability to speak in full sentences. Gerrie, “half finished, half-assed, half-baked, half-witted” describes it perfectly. BUT if they were able to actually communicate like reasonably intelligent grown men, then we, the viewers would actually understand what they mean and their perspectives. And THEN how would the writers turn their characters around and screw them up from episode to episode?

    Comment by Tammy — May 15, 2014 @ 2:03 am

  81. @JT, oops, the caps makes it seem like I’m shouting. Was just trying to emphasize the children bit. Sorry. :)

    Comment by Tammy — May 15, 2014 @ 4:20 am

  82. @81 You SHOULD shout, Tammy!!! Oh, wow! I didn’t know that. No wonder people were upset. What better proof that writers don’t watch this show–or don’t give a damned about what other writers have established.

    I think SN’s writers have no respect at all for SN–or for its viewers. Gamble called it “a little popcorn horror show.” The other writers probably say worse. My guess is they think they’re too good to be writing for this series, and–of course–they think we’re stupid fools.

    Kripke used to brag about the intelligence of SN’s fans. He had it right. He’s a smart, highly talented guy who knew what a treasure he had in this series and its audience. I do so wish he’d come back!!! Can we get a petition going?

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 5:04 am

  83. I’m all in for a petition!

    Comment by Tammy — May 15, 2014 @ 5:18 am

  84. Have to give Edlund credit for acknowledging the Grand Canyon gaff. Writer arrogance has gotten out of hand lately, canon has been ditched from Tessa as an angel to Dean identifying Castiel as an equal to Sam in past accomplishments. Perhaps, Edlund’s comment will put some breaks on the run-away writers attitude toward canon. Edlund did seem bored in his final two years on SPN, but speaking of honoring the past, Edlund did write Nightshifter, Bad Day at Black Rock, Wishful Thinking, The French Mistake, Clap Your Hands if You Believe–all favorites of mine. His ability with comedy has been sorely missed on SPN. He could write non-soap scripts, a missing talent now among the writers.

    Comment by CaseyT — May 15, 2014 @ 6:21 am

  85. @CaseyT Re: “Dean identifying Castiel as an equal to Sam in past accomplishments.”

    When was that? :/

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 6:25 am

  86. My god they are gonna try another Supernatural spinoff! I hope those ******* don’t sacrifice the original show’s storytelling yet again so they can fit Sam and Dean in the pilot for a few minutes just for promotion. Make the spinoff about angels or something so Supernatural can move on to new stories.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 6:39 am

  87. San Summer–In the last episode. In his conversation with Castiel. He clearly identified the three of them as the team in the past.

    Comment by CaseyT — May 15, 2014 @ 7:27 am

  88. San Summer–Yes. CW is going to develop another spin-off for after next year. Hedging their bets that J2 will leave? Putting pressure on J2 to sign for more years? Or, does CW want to keep SPN and try to repeat the success of having both Vampire Daries and its spin-off the Originals do well. Maybe CW is convinced, like the writers, that the angels explain SPN success so CW wants an angel series and let the old hunter aspect go. Who knows?

    Comment by CaseyT — May 15, 2014 @ 7:49 am

  89. From my perspective, the difference in the dialogue is that EK had a good feel for how working class MEN talked, as opposed to the new age writers we have these days who are all into “feelings.” Where EK grew up in Ohio where his parents ran a very successful junk yard, so he was around working class people during his youth. I doubt if the writers on the show now have been outside of a large city or been in a dive bar. Their writing reflects the Hollywood elitists and a plastic society.

    Simply put, I don’t want long, drawn-out “feelings” conversations. Certainly, Dean is not the character that would do that until after he’s thought long and hard about something, and Sam should know that.

    With the “if you want to be brothers…” talk and the follow-up one in The Purge, IMO, was Sam doing what Sam does — fighting with words. Dean doesn’t fight that way. He fights physically and explosively. So, the incomplete sentence does not bother me at all. Girls would have it out that way right then and there, but not Dean.

    What the problem is, IMO, is that these writers just threw that out there and then dropped it. Nothing the brothers have done in the season since that conversation has been driven by that conversation, except for a couple of lines of dialogue and the brothers shown sitting at different tables. Dean even got the MoC before that conversation, so although the viewers can make the leap that what said might contributed to Dean’s MoC story, it hasn’t drive it.

    Dean’s long-ingrained feelings about himself, his self-worth, self-doubt, and low self-esteem is what drove that story, and what Sam said reinforced it, just the same as Dr. Flagstaff’s comment in this episode did or Crowley’s comments in previous episodes.

    Sam thinking and saying that is driven by Sam’s life-long ambiguity about hunting and comes from him being torn between family loyalty and the life of hunting and all the blood, gore, pain and loss that results from that.

    These are individual issues with very distinctive characters, and having a long talk about their personal feelings about each other is not going to resolve that in any way.

    I am wondering if Carver’s idea is to permanently break the brother’s bond, in the sense that the two of them come into their own being. It sure appears that way to me, especially with inserting Cas as the mediator and go-to guy for both of them. He is pushing the Sam/Cas relationship heavily this year, while maintaining that Dean and Cas remain friends. That way he can split the brothers up in episodes, with one or the other doing their own thing while the other one works a case with Cas.

    @ JJA #67: The Grand Canyon WAS a big deal, because it messed with the whole premise of how the brothers were raised and lived and how they grew up to be hunters; that the brothers were isolated from both civilians and hunters, that because of John’s obsession with hunting, he dumped the brothers at motels and left them for weeks on end, that they were the poorest of the poor, little food, made their own fun with the very simple that life had to offer — old movies on old TV’s, rabbit ears, music — and had to depend only on each other. That comment gave the impression that the three of them went on a normal ‘family’ vacation just like the family next door, besides making light of an extremely important point that John was so worried about Sam that he dumped the responsibility of stopping Sam or killing him onto Dean. At the point in show when Dean said that, he not only was asking for some breathing time because he was reeling, the viewers had no idea what Dean needed to stop Sam from doing.

    @ JJA #67: The point is that Edlund had enough class to apologize for something he should have known, because he had been with the show since the beginning. The rest of these writers don’t have the class to admit that they don’t watch the show, know nothing about previoius canon, and don’t have enough talent to know and understand the two lead characters. So, no, they will not apologize for screwing up reaper canon.

    @ kaz #77: I don’t mean to come off as preaching, but the reason canon is important to a show is that when it is messed up or ignored, it causes so many of the problems we are seeing in the show these days. Story structure is lost, and that affects plotting out a story (the plotting, pacing, and continuity problems we see these days). The biggest problem, though, is that characterization completely flies out the window. We see that especially in that the story of each episode is driving how the two leads act. Having a story driving by the characters, instead of the characters being driven by the story is the very first rule of writing. I am completely baffled about how these writers are making a living writing when they haven’t learned the first basics about writing.

    For these reasons, I am absolutely a canonistada. Canon establishes the boundaries, the rules, within which a story is told. Without reliable canon, the writers can literally come up with anything that flies into their heads and call it good. Without adherence to canon, you get episodes like Bad Boys, where the author inserted himself into Dean’s character, living out some fantasy about how he would be if he were Dean. You get Dean jonsing for a porn star in the middle of a case, because all the writer thinks about is that Dean likes women. You get complete confusion about what story is being told this season. That’s why I am not taking part in conversations speculating as to what might happen in the finale. The writers can literally come up with anything they want to throw out there. It all goes back to lack of knowing or caring about the established rules within the world that was conceived.

    @ Samfan #78: I think you name says it all. Some, like me, were thrilled Dean finally told Sam to F off. I’ve waited years for Dean to do that, instead of apologize over and over again. But that’s not the point of what Dean said.

    That line, along with Dean telling Dr. Flagstaff that there was no other man like him, was to show Dean’s confidence in what he wants to do — which is to kill Metatron — and that he Blade/MoC is taking control of Dean. He’s right. There is no other man like him (Cain being a demon, not a human), and he is the only one — supposedly, but the writers could change that at any time — that can kill Metatron.

    I don’t even understand that, though. Killing Abbadon, an immortal who couldn’t be killed by anything else, I get. But, Metatron is a simple angel and one would think an angel blade would work just fine.

    Comment by Sheri — May 15, 2014 @ 7:55 am

  90. @CaseyT. Yeah, I thought you might have referred to the latest episode. I’m not too thrilled about TWF. I didn’t like how Dean saying “Well hey, you still got us,” set up the brothers as support players to Cas. Dean will take off though so I think he wasn’t really speaking from the heart. Yet the show was. Now it’s “the three of them” when it used to be SamnDean against the world.

    I do think Sam and Cas should have presented an united front. Can’t have Dean one minute saying that there is no teamwork but dictatorship and the next minute telling the other one that he still has Dean and Sam and that the three of them will be enough. It’s actually really weird how they wrote Cas. Maybe Metatron has a hold on him. Otherwise how could he care only about what Dean thinks of him even though he must have overheard what Dean just said to Sam?

    I think they sent Sam away just so there could be a bullshit scene between Cas and Dean. Can’t have too much insight into how Sam is doing. The finale will be Dean’s. It’s pretty sad that even though Dean has the action / myth arc, he still has the point of view, too. The brothers used to balance each other out. I’m not sure what Sam even did in this episode (penultimate finale!). Figured out one riddle?

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 8:02 am

  91. @88 CaseyT. I remember Jared saying something like it’s cool that they are gonna have a spinoff (Tribes) although it’s not gonna line his pockets. I think the Js should ask for a raise if they have to yet again promote an attempt to have a Supernatural spinoff especially if and when it’s gonna hurt the original show and the characters that have kept them in business this long.

    If they wanted to give Cas a big sendoff then I could’ve understood him sliding past Sam to be the second most important character on the show but now the cat is out of the bag that Misha is coming back so wth.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 8:38 am

  92. Im so disappiinted in the show that im dreading the finale actually. There is just NO saying where they might take it.

    Isnt this the time to be looking forward excitedly to the finale of one’s favorite show?

    Comment by Tammy — May 15, 2014 @ 9:39 am

  93. “The finale will be Dean’s. It’s pretty sad that even though Dean has the action / myth arc, he still has the point of view, too. “.

    Exactly. And on top of that, Dean gets to tell Sam to eff off (which is what many Dean fans have been dying to tell Sam themselves). So good if others are thrilled.

    Me, I want Dean to eff off!

    Comment by samfan — May 15, 2014 @ 10:15 am

  94. @93 samfan, I’d cheer if Dean wiped out every rotten angel on the planet (are any of the angels NOT rotten?), but–considering what a dominant role Castiel is being given on the series–my fear is Carver’s going to turn Dean into a killer of innocent humans so he’ll be a mass murderer like his buddy angel.

    One of those innocent humans might be Sam. That way his ghost can be kept busy finding a way of getting all the lost souls to heaven while Dean and Castiel become the new brothers on the series. A small segment of the fandom will be happy, at least.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 10:54 am

  95. They should just go ahead with Dean and Cas show. I would laugh when it would tank.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 10:58 am

  96. @92 Well said, Tammy! Actually, I used to dread watching SN because of the damage that might be done to the Winchesters by demons. Now I dread watching SN because of the damage that might be done to the Winchesters by incompetent writers.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 11:09 am

  97. @95 As we know, never going to happen, San. JA would walk off the set and let the producers sue him before he’d ever allow the rats to dump JP. Besides, most fans wouldn’t put up with a Samless SN for a New York minute.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 11:20 am

  98. @JT. Yeah, what has served the Js well is sticking together. But as one can see in the current state of the show, the writers can do a lot to undermine what it was billed to be about and still keep up appearances. It was supposed to be about two brothers.

    What would even be Dean’s role if the show was about him and Cas hunting? They wouldn’t be able to work normal cases like Dean and Sam because Cas is too powerful against monsters etc. (as was shown in Purgatory flashbacks and otherwise). If they went up against the angels, Dean would very soon find himself in the role of the kidnapped and tied up because the other angels would say he is “Castiel’s soft spot”.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 11:37 am

  99. Personally, I would be fine if they built a spin-off for Cas and move him over there. It offended me that he appeared at the Up-Fronts, just as if he were a lead and had any part in making SPN a show that has lasted ten years and will probably go on more than that. Misha’s self-promotion certainly paid off in a big way.

    Comment by Sheri — May 15, 2014 @ 11:57 am

  100. My apologies if this has already been mentioned, but there is a sneak peek of the finale up on Spoilertv.com if you guys want to check it out.

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 15, 2014 @ 12:32 pm

  101. @98San Summer, “Castiel’s soft spot” is right! And wouldn’t rabid Castiel fans love that? It so annoyed me in the last episode when the brothers were arguing and Castiel ordered them to stop. The ONLY one allowed to do that is Bobby–but it was a very bad sign. Dabb will have Castiel dominate the brothers; the jerk will be the wise one, and they’ll be the fools.

    @99 Sheri, I’d be thrilled if Castiel and his angels (or whoever) would be given a spin off–NOW. But the producers know Collins can’t carry his own show. Besides, they want those Castiel/Dean fans, and the Js want time off. It’s an ideal set up–except for fans of the brothers, of course.

    You’re so right about the way the show has put Collins front and center. My guess is he insisted on something like that in his contract. He’s a huge self-promoter; he’s been that way since S4. And Castiel just continues to drag down the show. What anybody sees in him, I haven’t a clue.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 12:36 pm

  102. @100 Thanks so much, Lisa!

    I know what will happen. Castiel will unlock the door and NEVER EVER tell anybody about what he did! (Of course, that won’t affect his popularity with his fans.)

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 12:42 pm

  103. @Lisa1. Thank you for the news! Hmm… a little too much like season 4 for my liking. Maybe Carver really thinks Sam and Dean need to walk a mile in each other’s shoes since it was shown in season 8 that Dean supposedly _still_ hasn’t forgiven Sam for drinking demon blood etc.

    Considering that Dean is battling his own addiction, I think that locking Dean up was the only sensible thing to do at that point. I liked that they were being pretty civil about it. And Dean pulling out the Sammy card :)

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 1:20 pm

  104. @101 JT. Yeah, I have a feeling that the Dean/Cas fans saw a glimpse of their fantasy show during season 8 and they want it back. You know, Dean fighting his way through Purgatory yelling “Where is the angel?!” while Sam is out of the way. Remember how they want Sam to get a wife and a dog. How nice of them.

    @102. Sam is so important to Dean that sometimes I have to suspend belief that Dean would be that cool with Cas. There aren’t many still alive who have hurt Sam. In a way I feel like the writers have been afraid to really look at the stuff that Cas has done.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 1:38 pm

  105. San & JT – You’re welcome :-)

    I agree that the scene is too reminiscent of S4 for my taste. I guess Carver truly intends for the brothers to have the same exact experiences!

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 15, 2014 @ 2:59 pm

  106. So another spinoff? Well, we’ve talked ideas before. To start, characters or monsters that actually exist in the ‘verse? I think there could be a lot of interest in the MOL or angels, not so much for another CW teeny-bopper drama that had the SPN name slapped to it. I agree that Cas himself is a bad bet for a spin-off- I doubt he can carry his own show, and a significant amount of interest in his character is in his interactions with Dean. The occasional b-plot when the J’s need a lighter episode is enough for me.

    I saw the clip- yeah, it’s pretty heavy-handed, though I do think it will be interesting to watch. It makes me think even more that MOC Dean is emotionally manipulative- Cas still seems to outweigh him on the power scale, especially without the Blade, so he doesn’t even try to fight him or Sam- but he does start doing the “Sammy” and appealing to his emotions. Once Dean is past his incandescent rage, he and Sam will have an interesting chat about it sometime. Though even I was like “Sam, give him a freaking mattress or something!” The cell looked totally empty. Unless they really only plan to park Dean there for a couple of hours? Or they expect him to bust out :p?

    Comment by Jaytee — May 15, 2014 @ 3:08 pm

  107. Interesting scene (the sneak preview clip). Or possibly interesting.
    At this point I’m liking the parellels to S4. I’ll qualify that by saying that it really really depends on how the writers have handled it (ie. everything else that comes after this very brief scene).
    After weeks of wasted opportunity, they have an opportunity to do something very good here. I just want to believe that it will happen.

    Comment by Calle — May 15, 2014 @ 3:11 pm

  108. @90- Well San, I’m not trying to give you or anybody else a hard time here, but to the point of view of many, every season except 3, where both brothers finally had an equal important arc, and 7 where neither one had any arc to speak of, it’s mostly been Sam that had all the major stories while Dean’s only role was to support him. This is the first season since 3 that it’s finally been Dean’s turn so guess I guess I don’t understand some of the resentment there.Dean fans have had to deal with him being on the backburner for the majority of the seasons.
    However, that doesn’t mean I like Sam’s diminished role this season, on the contrary, I NEVER wanted that. All I ever wanted was for them to have equal importance.
    That being said, I do agree with and understand the frustration of Cas/Misha being placed in such a prominent role this season while Sam doesn’t really have any story. But really, while Dean is finally getting some kind of arc, nothing’s happened there until these last couple of episodes. Cas was placed front and center over Dean as well as Sam. It doesn’t matter how many episodes Cas has had, his arc was still the main one, and although I like Cas as well as Misha, he is a supporting character, whose stories should never get precedence over Sam and Dean.
    I am still hoping that the MOC becomes Sam and Dean’s story together. I still feel that he could and should have a major role to play there.

    Comment by roxi — May 15, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

  109. Ok guys, I just saw the clip, but I’m not getting where you’re all seeing the Dean and Cas show. More and more to me, it’s looking like the new team is SAM and Cas.

    Comment by roxi — May 15, 2014 @ 5:09 pm

  110. @109 roxi, it does seem Sam is being partnered up with Sam here. But my impression is that the producers/writers have decided to give Castiel Bobby’s place in the series. Suddenly Castiel, sounding like Bobby, tells the brothers to stop arguing; suddenly Sam is speaking to Castiel rather than directly to his brother about Dean’s condition; suddenly Castiel is helping one brother lock up the other. I miss Bobby. I don’t want a substitute. But I’d rather Castiel play uncle to the Winchesters than make goo goo eyes at Dean.

    @106, Jaytee, true. Dean is very manipulative in that scene. He also seems insane–or possessed. I hope he is. That way, if he kills an innocent human, he won’t be to blame. I truly hate the way the writers try to deprive the Winchesters of their heroic status and make them as bad as the things they hunt. Of course, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Carver didn’t try to clean up murderous Castiel by turning Dean into an equally reprehensible killer.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 5:41 pm

  111. @108 roxi. The camera could have followed Sam. There have been many times in the past when Sam has done something crazy and then Dean has tried to gather this thoughts and the camera has been there with him. Why not have it for Sam? They could have still had the scene between Dean and Cas (and cut time off from the angels). But no. Just had to have Sam out of sight.

    Re: “I am still hoping that the MOC becomes Sam and Dean’s story together. I still feel that he could and should have a major role to play there.”

    I’m getting suspicious about that. Sure Sam could have a big role but what kind. Sam has already been placed by many as the bad brother, some even put Dean getting the mark of Cain on Sam. He’ll try to save his brother and reach out to him but will it be too little too late.

    @110 JT. Re: “suddenly Sam is speaking to Castiel rather than directly to his brother about Dean’s condition”

    I remember that some fan had recorded how many times Sam or Dean were talked about between the members of Team Free Will (including Bobby and Cas) while the one being talked about was not present. And it came up that there were hardly any times that Dean was referenced when he was not in the scene whereas Sam was the opposite. I guess that could be seen as the show excluding Dean but to me it showed what most get intuitively. Dean has a lot of the point of view and Sam was usually in the throes of something being wrong with him so of course Dean would talk about Sam with Cas or Bobby while Sam was not around.

    Now they attempted to have Sam have that kind of talk with Cas but to me it wasn’t a really good scene. Cas is supposed to be family so Sam should not need to keep up appearances and Cas is a friend so it’s not really badmouthing Dean if they talk. Maybe Sam still saw Dean through rose-colored glasses but the scene didn’t really offer up any new insight except when it came to Castiel.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 6:37 pm

  112. San – I’ve come to accept the camera will NEVER follow Sam.

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 15, 2014 @ 7:04 pm

  113. @111, San Summer, I completely agree with Lisa!; it will never happen. The writers/directors are too small minded to realize how much using Sam’s POV would enhance the series. Even now, when we should be seeing crazed Dean through Sam’s eyes, we see him through Sam’s AND Castiel’s eyes–which is the same as having no POV at all.

    I don’t remember the name–was it “Blade Runner” when Sam discovered Abaddon’s forces were stealing souls? What better proof of how successful an episode can be when the focus is on Sam carrying out a hunt on his own? If the Js want time off, the writers should allow the brothers to work separately from time to time. There’s no reason to bring in supporting characters like Castiel.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 7:26 pm

  114. @Lisa1. Harsh but true! I don’t get why they do that. They wouldn’t have needed to give him a big emotional scene like tears in his eyes etc. Just give something. (Harsh breathing / splashing water at his face / turning back around to go talk to Dean or hearing Gadreel’s footsteps etc.) There wouldn’t even need to be words.

    @JT. And probably more through Castiel’s eyes! He analyzes Dean while in the car with Sam, is hurt that Dean would doubt him and then has the ending talk with him.

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 7:33 pm

  115. I think we might be headed to end!verse.
    This episode perfectly set up how Cas ended up as a human druggie – the angels bailed and his mojo drained away. It also showed Dean very much in cold/hard ‘my way or the highway’ mode – just as he was in end!verse. Whaddaya wanna bet that Metatron let’s Luci out of the cage and Sam ends up possessed again.
    So that’s one cool thing I think this episode potentially accomplished.
    He was trying to do a lot in this episode – he tied in Robbie’s Metatron plot and doubled-down on ND’s new reaper mythos, which I agree was just awful. Truly a loss to the SPN universe – of a species, an uninvolved faction, the terrific character of Death, and of course Tessa. Tessa, one of the few gentle, kind, non-sexualized female characters (who was pretty much universally loved) and who they made into a goddamn suicide bomber. None of the Tessa subplot made any sense, to an almost painful degree.
    But I have to say, Cas walking away from his power – even his chance at redemption – for Dean, made me deeply happy. To me that’s the heart of the relationship between them – selfless love and sacrifice, seeing the good in each other when no one else does, and never giving up on each other. That’s the kind of thing that’s beautiful about humanity. We are capable of that, of agape, pure and perfect love, though you don’t see it that often in real life.
    I’d also say to all those who are crowing with delight over Metatron’s comments about Cas, that when you let a loathsome little toad play ventriloquist for your opinions, other people really can’t be held responsible for mistaking you for one.
    (No insult to Curtis – it’s his job to make us loathe Metatron, and he’s done quite a fine job indeed.) I just think that those of you who generally take what evil says at face value, (such as Zachariah), and promulgate it as the truth ….might want to take a closer look at your life choices. Unless reptile dysfuntion is what you were aiming for.

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 15, 2014 @ 7:34 pm

  116. Did I say humanity? I meant Dean Winchester.

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 15, 2014 @ 7:35 pm

  117. @115 Re: “I’d also say to all those who are crowing with delight over Metatron’s comments about Cas, that when you let a loathsome little toad play ventriloquist for your opinions, other people really can’t be held responsible for mistaking you for one.

    (No insult to Curtis – it’s his job to make us loathe Metatron, and he’s done quite a fine job indeed.) I just think that those of you who generally take what evil says at face value, (such as Zachariah), and promulgate it as the truth ….might want to take a closer look at your life choices. Unless reptile dysfuntion is what you were aiming for.”

    Maybe you are referring to me? I just pointed out that Metatron said the line about “He’s in love… with humanity” as well as negative comments about Cas. The writing was playing both sides by having Metatron say one minute that Cas is charming and the next minute calling him Asstiel etc. And isn’t it a little funny to say “when you let a loathsome little toad play ventriloquist for your opinions” when you take his comment about Cas being in love with humanity as Destiel?

    Comment by San Summer — May 15, 2014 @ 8:03 pm

  118. t1gerlilly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Castiel loves Dean and Sam, but I don’t believe it’s a sexual love the way you apparently do.

    Comment by JT — May 15, 2014 @ 8:24 pm

  119. @Tigerlilly. Guilty as charged. I quoted Matron’s lines and yes, crowed with delight. Reptile dysfunction? :)

    But really, don’t you find it annoying how weird and ‘all over the place’ they’ve had Castiel? From his introduction as powerful, but clueless angel to God, to weird angel to mad as a nutter angel to amnesiac healer and back to clueless, but kinda powerless angel again. like Sam, one never knows where he is.

    Comment by Tammy — May 15, 2014 @ 10:09 pm

  120. Here we go again. Some people can only talk about one thing, apparently. Of course some people heard “Dean” in the place of “humanity”, because doesn’t matter what happens, they are gonna see only what they want to see.
    Yeah, I bet Dean thought it was “pure love” when Cas broke Sam’s wall or when he betrayed the brothers. Selective memory much?

    Don’t get me wrong, of course I think Cas loves Dean (and Sam, do you remember Sam? The OTHER main character? No?) AS A FRIEND,a concept that some people don’t seem to understand, but no matter how hard reality hits them, they are going to twist things in their head so they don’t have to face it.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 1:34 am

  121. Did anyone actually think Cas would kill Dean? That scene played out last year too. I’m not sure why it was shown again.

    Comment by Lisa1 — May 16, 2014 @ 3:20 am

  122. Come on, does anybody really believe that if it had been Sam the angels wanted Cas to kill, that suddenly he would’ve said”ok’? Of course not!
    Cas wouldn’t have been able to kill Sam either. That scene was NOT an example of Destiel!
    I really do want to be respectful,and I really don’t wish to insult anybody, but let’s be honest: Destiel believers will see romantic undertones or suggestions that Dean is bisexual in just about ANYTHING, no matter how insignificant. Example- the episode where Dean went back to the 1940′s. There was a scene of him that to most of us was obvious that he was getting a kick out of seeing people in their authentic period clothes and the cars, but Destiel fans swear he was checking out guys and this scene is proof of his bisexuality.
    The scene where he was coaching Charlie on how to flirt with men? They swear this is another example of his supposed bisexuality, but Sam was laughing at him, and Dean himself said he was humiliated. Bottom line: he knew what works for HIM when girls flirt with him, so relayed that info to Charlie, who has no experience flirting with men.
    The season 8 scene from the gollem episode where the guy flirted with him? Dean thought this guy was a suspect and then he unexpectedly hits on him! It seemed pretty clear to most viewers he was caught off guard and got flustered because of it.
    And him and Cas “looking” at eachother when they talk. Don’t most people look at eachother when they’re talking to eachother? Or do people who are NOT romantically/sexually attracted to eachother look at the floor, the ceiling,or sideways when they talk to eachother?

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 4:03 am

  123. And as far as Sam being possessed by Lucifer again, I for one DON’T want that to happen. Sam’s been possessed enough times since season 2. I am happy to finally have a fully human Sam.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 4:13 am

  124. @111- The writers could do what I wish they would do: Have Sam find a way to track down Cain and get it straight from him what that mark is doing/will do to Dean, the kind of danger Dean can cause in that state, and of course what, if anything, Sam can do to both save his brother and also stop him from going on a murder spree. In my mind this would indeed place Sam in a very prominent role in the whole MOC arc and it would have to just be about Dean, it would be about Sam also, as an individual, using both his brains and watching him do the legwork while seeing, in his interaction with Cain, Sam’s own feelings about the drama between him and Dean and his fears about possibly losing his brother for good to this darkness.
    Anyway, you can’t say my scenario would be any worse than the crap these low grade writers have come up with in the past two seasons.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 4:45 am

  125. @ Lisa1 #121: If Cas had killed Dean (which everyone knew he would not, and would not had it been Sam), Cas would have been committing murder. Tessa was a suicide bomber bent on killing angels, humans, and herself anyway.

    @ Tammy: I don’t find Cas a fully realized character since his story ended in S4. I actually see no purpose to even having Cas around anymore. We have had:

    Warrior of God!Cas – S4
    Hippie!Druggie!Cas – S5
    Levi!Cas, God!Cas – S6
    Amnesiac!Cas, Healer!Cas, Nutcase!Cas, and
    Sort-of-Helper!Cas – S7
    Penitent!Cas – S8
    Human!Cas, Reluctant!Leader! and WeakeningAngel!Cas – S9

    So this season, they gave Cas an angel army and took it away, which puts him right back to Winchester sidekick and/or third Winchester status.

    Comment by Sheri — May 16, 2014 @ 4:46 am

  126. @111- I meant to say” it WOULDN’T have to be all about Dean”.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 4:47 am

  127. Guys, I know some of you have the theory that Sam is gonna kill dean or viceversa, but I’m really having a hard time imagining that happening.

    Think about it: the first half of the season has been nothing but an ode of how far Dean would go for Sam and how much Dean sacrificed in order to take care of his brother. Adam Glass said via Tweeter that the reason which most of us fell in love with the show, Dean’s love for Sam, is what still drives the show (And yes, those were his exact words). And even when Sam and Dean are mad at each other, they keep reminding us how their bond used to be.

    Do you really think these cheesy writers would go down that road? I don’t think so. Yes, I’m sure they are gonna play with the idea, but that’s nothing new. In season 2 they played with the idea of Dean having to kill Sam so he didn’t turn evil. What happened? Dean would have rather die than to kill Sam. Same with the Michael/Lucifer storyline. What happened then? Sam’s love for his brother made him take control over his body again.

    I think this time is no different. They create a conflict so we say “Noooo, we want the brotherly bond back! Sam, Dean did that out of love! (like Gadreel said). Dean, Sam only wants you to treat him like an equal partner!” They keep us suffering because thay think the fixing is gonna be more satisfaying this way, so in the end we say “Awww, I knew their love would overcome everything!”

    They have been doing the same thing since season 5. It’s the same thing over and over, so I really doubt they would ever go down that road, but they will play with the idea. It’s unimaginative and bad writing.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 4:48 am

  128. Interesting. I didn’t say anything about romantic or sexual love. I’ve said numerous times I ship them as friends or lovers. And I agree that he wouldn’t have killed Sam either.
    You guys jumped to the romantic/sexual interpretation. Why? I’d say that the show has made it pretty clear that Dean and Cas have a different relationship than Sam and Cas. One which the show has repeatedly framed in a romantic way. Lisa is quite right that we’ve seen this before – again and again, actually. The last time Jensen had the line that implies love between them, but he didn’t think it fit for the character to come out and say it – so this time they had another character make the implication. And San, Metatron said Cas was in love with humanity – we aren’t supposed to agree with him, we’re supposed to regard that as just one more of Metatron’s grandiose delusions. Just like when he told Cas to go off and get a wife and kids … like that was going to happen. We already knew And incidentally, my toad comments weren’t directed at anyone in particular. I even didn’t read the forum thread before I commented. I just figured that there would be sure to be some – given the amount of Cas-hate in the ‘Misha’s returning’ thread.

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 16, 2014 @ 4:55 am

  129. Oops – we already knew that Cas will drop his wife as soon as Dean shows up, even if he doesn’t remember who he is.

    @tammy – you like that? Here’s another:
    How is Dean Winchester like a penis potato?
    They’re both dick ‘taters.
    (I know, I know…I should probably examine my life choices too)

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 16, 2014 @ 5:01 am

  130. @128- I can’t speak for anybody else, but the reason that I, personally, take your comments to mean love of a romantic nature is because of you past history.
    And your assertion that the show has repeatedly framed Dean and Cas’s friendship in a romantic way is just that, your assertion. It is in no way a fact. A vast amount of viewers see absolutely no romantic framing of their friendship at all, but in the same way that me and some other posters here always seem at odds because we see the same situations completely differently, so too, are you free to interpret Dean and Cas’s friendship as romantic if you wish.
    Incidentally, you say you make no implication that their relationship is romantic in nature, but just the fact that you made that comment, your conviction that the the show repeatedly frames their friendship as romantic, doesn’t that give you away?

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 5:23 am

  131. @t1gerlilly:”You guys jumped to the romantic/sexual interpretation. Why? ”

    Because it’s what you do all the time T1gerlilly. Come on, you are not fooling anyone. After saying all those things you use to say about that matter over and over, can you really blame us? Besides, the way you talk about it is more romantic than anything else. Stop playing innocent, we know what kind of post you ussually write.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 5:26 am

  132. @128. Re: “Metatron said Cas was in love with humanity – we aren’t supposed to agree with him, we’re supposed to regard that as just one more of Metatron’s grandiose delusions.”

    So what are you saying? That you didn’t take his words as an encouraging sing that Cas is in love with Dean? Then why did you write #116 “Did I say humanity? I meant Dean Winchester.”

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 5:31 am

  133. @t1gerlilly: “I’d say that the show has made it pretty clear that Dean and Cas have a different relationship than Sam and Cas. One which the show has repeatedly framed in a romantic way.”

    Whaaaaaaaaaat? After what the writers, producers and Jensen had said you still think this delusion is true? I swear to God it’s like talking to a rock. The PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE SHOW SAY THAT DEAN AND CAS ARE NOT IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER. Have you read their tweets and their interviews? Have you watched Jensen’s panels?

    Do you want me to repeat what the writers and producers have said? Because no matter how many times people remind you, you just won’t believe it.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 5:53 am

  134. I don’t think Sam is gonna kill Dean or vice/versa, but I do think it’s possible that maybe Sam will have to shoot Dean, you know, in the leg or something, just to stop him or slow him down, not kill him. At least it looks that way in the preview.Besides, the showrunner said that the boys would find themselves in a position they’ve never been in before, and they already have tried to kill eachother in the past, when they were under the influence of something, and of course we know that they have been dead many times before so, we know it has to be something else.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 5:56 am

  135. @133- Because Emmanuel,merely saying that a character just happens to be heterosexual, and has always been written as heterosexual, means, to this crowd, that you are homophobic, heterosexist( whatever the hell that means), or any other derogatory label.
    We’ve seen how bad Jensen gets it( and continues to get it) just for having stated that his character just happens to be straight: he’s apparently the biggest homophobic douchebag on earth according to them and is the cause of teen-aged suicides if you believe some of the stuff on the internet.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 6:03 am

  136. @roxi, maybe I’m wrong, but the first thing I thought when I heard about the final was that maybe God was going to make an a appearance. A couple of years back they did an audition to find an actor who plays God’s voice. So maybe….

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 6:08 am

  137. @135. Believe me roxi, I know. I’ve seen it more times that I can count over the years. I’m a gay man and an activist for the LGTB rights and I’ve been called an homophobe for saying that Dean is straight.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 6:15 am

  138. @137- LOL, yes, I knew that you are a gay man because I remembered you saying before, but it doesn’t matter because if you actually believe that Dean is just written as a straight man and Heaven forbid, have the audacity to say that in public, then, just like Jensen, you too are a homophobe dammit!
    In my fan heart, I still believe that Joshua was/is God. The actor seemed on the older side, and I really hope he is still around, not for my selfish reasons but because out of human compassion. But that being said, I’d really love for him to return and end up being God at the end of the series.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 6:27 am

  139. I saw some comments about Dean killing Tessa, but Dean didn’t, Tessa killed herself by impaling herself on the blade.

    Also, from what we were shown, Dean didn’t kill Gadriel, he slashed him. I don’t think Dean wanted to kill him, otherwise, he would have flat out stabbed him.

    I think one of the reasons that Dean was more upset with Sam is because of what Sam has been saying to Dean, how Sam issued the ultimatum that they aren’t brothers, and has reiterated it since then, how Sam lashed out to hurt Dean by saying that Dean does more harm than good (something that supposed Doctor-Angel reiterated) and that Dean only sacrifices when others get hurt. We, the viewres, know those are not true statements (which, I believe is one of the reasons why we had the episode Bad Boys, where Sam saw how Dean has sacrificed for him), but that’s what Sam said and that’s what Dean thinks Sam thinks of him.

    The poor relationship between the brothers and where they stand today, is not just because of Dean, Sam is also responsible for the bad relationship. So, they will both need to take ownership of their parts for it to get better.

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 6:31 am

  140. @138: Yes, it would be great if Joshua were God. It would make sense. I know some people think Chuck is God, but I never understood why some people think such a thing. Then why was he so scared of the angels? Am I supposed to believe that God was hiring hookers when nobody was looking? It makes zero sense…

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 6:38 am

  141. @114 San Summer, you’re so right! That car scene was all about Castiel. Sam was just along for the ride. In fact, the entire episode was written to showcase Castiel –Mighty Commander of Warrior Angels, Sole Threat to the Powerful Metatron, Wise Counsellor to Stupid Sam and Dean, God to Adoring Hosts of Minions, Self-Sacrificing Lover of Humanity–…”I’m going to be sick” to borrow the line the sadistic, mass murder stole from Dean.

    Season after season people who watch this show to see the Winchesters have to put up with this kind of loathsome crap apparently written only to appease a loud, extremely demanding minority of viewers who don’t give a damn about Sam and want Dean around only as Castiel’s boy toy.

    @125, Sheri, you nail it. As your outline of his multiple roles shows, this useless piece of nothing has been outfitted in one role after another in a mad struggle by the writers to try to make him relevant to the series. WHY with a universe of great characters to choose from and a wealth of excellent actors available to play them is SN stuck in the muck with Castiel?

    I’m convinced that at some point when Dawn was president of the CW and Castiel was at his height of popularity, Collins managed to negotiate a contract stipulating that he would remain with SN as long as it was on the air. This would account for what Gamble said years ago when asked how long Castiel would be on the series: “for the rest of Dean’s life.” Why would a show runner ever say that about a regular/recurring character if he and his representatives hadn’t given himself the same permanent status as the two leads have?

    As I see it, all that business about Castiel possibly not returning was tailored to get his little army of fans in an uproar. It was great publicity for Collins and garnered attention for SN. Of course, the ploy didn’t work so well this season.
    The little army is shrinking in numbers, and Castiel is at least five years beyond his expiration date.

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 6:40 am

  142. Sorry for the grammatical errors! Anger makes my writing even worse.

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 6:43 am

  143. I’m not a minion or Castiel lover, but I do like him, and wow, at the Castiel hate on this site.

    “Team Free Will” isn’t something new, it has been the three of them since season 4/5.

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 6:46 am

  144. Team Free Will had four members: Sam, Dean, Castiel and BOBBY.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 6:49 am

  145. @144 – okay, but Bobby’s dead, but that shouldn’t affect the fact that Castiel has always been part of “Team Free Will.”

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 7:00 am

  146. Has anybody posted this from EntertainmentTV (I think it’s called)?

    From an interview about the finale with JA: “expect one of those brother-bonding moments that will ‘probably’ make you cry, ‘considering [Jared's] tears were all over my shoulder.”

    How ’bout those tears for HAPPY news????

    ps Bree, how come if someone doesn’t like a character and believes he’s destroying the show, that person is characterized as a “hater”? I could as easily characterize Castiel fans as Sam haters. Illogical!

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 7:32 am

  147. @146 – um, are you sure you meant to respond to me because I never used the word “hater.” I said that there was a lot of Castiel hate.

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 7:40 am

  148. To read the complete interview with JA, just enter Supernatural.tv and scroll down. The interview is from Entertainment Weekly and the article’s entitled,
    ” ‘Supernatural’ finale: Jensen Ackles teases the brother moment with a tear-stained shoulder.”

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 7:40 am

  149. …and saying there was a lot of “Castiel hate” is different than calling someone a “hater.” I wasn’t calling posters names or putting a label on posters. You’re the one who seems to want to label people.

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 7:42 am

  150. 147, bree, it was your use of the expression “Castiel hate” that made me think of the endless times those who don’t like the character have been called “haters.” For one to be accused of “hating” a fictional character as if he or she were a real person makes no sense to me.

    In any case, I’m sorry, bree. I shouldn’t have sounded so accusatory. You certainly didn’t deserve that!

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 7:45 am

  151. @143- I like Cas. I like Misha. But what I don’t like is him being elevated to equal lead status. I’ts been said here that he wasn’t in loads of episodes this season,but in the end it didn’t matter, his arc was still the main story, with Dean’s arc only just getting started in the last few episodes, and Sam not even getting a story this time around. For a long time, I complained about Sam seeming to almost always get all the main arcs, but looking back, at least it could be said that Sam is one of the two leads. Something’s not right when the supporting character get’s more focus and storyline importance, and more promotion from the showrunner, than either one of the main leads.
    I realize that some fans watch mainly for Cas, and that’s fine, but he’s STILL the supporting character who should be there to support and enhance what should should always be the main arc of the Winchesters, who are the ones SPN was built on.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 7:52 am

  152. Uh. Some of us are capable of liking more than two characters at a time. Just because we like Cas, that doesn’t mean we don’t like Sam. People pull that straw man out all the time, with absolutely no evidence, to demonize Cas or Destiel fans. Given how much time I’ve spent defending Sam last year and this year, that is just flat out ridiculous where I’m concerned. You’re just being nasty.
    If you don’t like Cas, or Destiel, fine. Not everybody likes the same thing. But don’t lie about other people. Don’t make yourself out to be the victim when you’ve gone out of your way to be rude and degrading about something you know makes other people happy.

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 16, 2014 @ 8:12 am

  153. @150, JT – thank you for the apology. It’s good. :-)

    Comment by bree — May 16, 2014 @ 8:16 am

  154. @141 JT Re: “As I see it, all that business about Castiel possibly not returning was tailored to get his little army of fans in an uproar. It was great publicity for Collins and garnered attention for SN.”

    Oh yeah I saw signs of that. But this episode also makes me think that maybe they threw a bone to that segment of the fandom by having that line about Cas being in love… with humanity. After all, they might have something gnarly planned for Cas for the finale. I have a feeling it won’t be a Dean/Cas love fest.

    @146. Exciting quote! It gave me the impression that Sam is crying for Dean, that Dean is so far gone that Sam is afraid he is not able to reach out to him anymore and he is trying to have the real Dean back. Although they might do a callback to 2.21. I mean they have problematized the question whether one should let someone go with Death or not.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 8:17 am

  155. Jared at Upfronts

    tvfanatic.com/videos/jared-padalecki-upfronts-interview/

    What do you guys think? I get the impression that they are willing to go for season 11. I hope that whatever the twist is, it’s truly going to be about the brothers. Sam’s part in 9.22 was laughably small and it shouldn’t be that way considering he is one half of the brothers and the season is coming to an end. It’s crazy to me that angels from Cas and Metatron and Gadreel to Tessa had a bigger role.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 8:44 am

  156. @t1gerlilly: Are you calling me a liar? Is this how you justify it?That we are lying? I’m sorry but the bashing Jensen got was very real. Go check it out. Even Cliff had to defend himself and Jensen publicly. The bashing the writers got was very real. Everybody saw those things, so can deny it all you want, bt it doesn’t change the fact that it happened. I’ve seen it over and over, and don’t you dare to call me a liar. You are the one who is lying to yourself.

    If it makes you happy, that’s great, enjoy it. But keep in mind that is fan-made. And most importantly, leave the rest of us alone. Would you be ok if I start posting my Wincest fantasies like you do? I won’t, because I have RESPECT for those who come here to talk about the actual show, not fan-made ships which are not happening.

    But again, if thinking that we are lying and that the writers are really telling a super-secret relatonship between them makes you sleep better at night, be my guest.

    But don’t you fucking dare to call me a liar again.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 8:52 am

  157. Pictures from the finale:

    screenfad.com/supernatural/supernatural-photos-season-9-finale-do-you-believe-in-miracles-20377/attachment/do-you-believe-in-miracles-17#sitetop

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 9:33 am

  158. @emmanual – I don’t care what you post. Wincest away. To be honest, I don’t read most of your posts, because you aren’t reasonable. I only noticed your last one because it was directed at me. I don’t know what you’re referring to – but if you said I don’t like Sam then you are a liar. Otherwise, feel free to rant at will, but I don’t see where you’re showing me much respect, so I can’t take you too seriously.

    Comment by t1gerlilly — May 16, 2014 @ 9:45 am

  159. I never understood why so many viewers felt, and still, feel, that Chuck was/is God. And Chuck remains one of my all time favorite characters.I would love to see him again,he was smart, funny, had great chemistry with both boys,and I thought was a real cutie but it never made sense to me that he could be God, because he was terrified, paid for sex,(why would GOD do that?) was a drunk,knew nothing about the arch angels guarding prophets, and had no idea about anything going on except for the images in his head that made him write, etc.
    Joshua, on the other hand, had a gravitas and presence that made me truly believe that, although he was supposed to be speaking for God, lead me to believe he himself was God, speaking of himself in the third person.
    I for one will be very disappointed if 1- God never shows up in the end and 2- If it’s not Joshua.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 10:16 am

  160. @158- It’s true Emmanuel, T1gerlilley has nothing at all against Sam. It’s Dean who he/she always seems to have the lowest opinion of.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 10:19 am

  161. To those here, like Samfan, who think that Sam should tell Dean to fuck off, let me just remind them that, yes, under normal circumstances, even though I love Dean, he can be a total prick and even when he’s just being normal Dean, Sam sometimes has valid reasons to tell him to go fuck himself.
    However, right now, he’s NOT in his right mind, so I would ask them to consider that, and give Dean a little leeway.
    There was a time when I was pissed at the way season 4 Sam treated Dean, but recently I have reconsidered and thought about the fact that Sam was addicted to demon blood, so probably wasn’t in his right mind either. I now believe that most of the hurtful things Sam said to Dean then weren’t really what Sam felt as much as the addiction screwing with his thinking and his personality. Please consider that it’s the same situation with Dean now.
    Even though I hated the way Sam acted towards Dean for the first half of season 8, I have no doubt that he truly loves him. Sam had absolutely EVERY right and every reason to be royally pissed at Dean’s actions in the first half of this season, and at some point, Dean really needs to see that he was WRONG there, apologize to Sam, and shoiw that he’s truly committed to healing their relationship. I’m totally on Sam’s side here.
    But at present, Dean’s NOT really Dean, so please try to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 10:39 am

  162. Oh, just to head it off at the pass,I KNOW CAS was also not in his right mind or really Cas when he went nuts and killed a bunch of humans and God knows how many angels, but when he deliberately set out to hurt and possibly kill Sam as leverage to make Dean stand down he hadn’t yet ingested all those souls and still, for the most part, was “Cas” so yes, that’s a crime I still feel he’s responsible for.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 10:48 am

  163. T1gerlilly, of course you don’t read what I post. Of course you don’t wanna know what the writers or what Jensen says about Destiel. Of course you don’t wanna know about the bashing Jensen, the writers and other fans get by some Destiel shippers. But if you don’t believe ME, then believe THEM, specially when it’s so easy to find out if I’m wrong. Check out Jensen’s panels, check out the writers tweets. Check out the interviews and Tumblr post about Jensen being an homophobe according to them.

    But noooo, it’s ME who is disrespectful. Not those people who call homophobes to those people who dare to point out what is so clearly stated on the show, and by the writers and by Jensen. Not them.

    So YOU don’t take ME seriously? A person who dispite the facts still believes the delusions your fellow shippers say? Yeah, thanks for the laugh.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 10:49 am

  164. By the way, saying that Destiel is not canon is not rude or degrading. It’s just the way it is. And (again) it’s not only me who says it. The creator, the writers and JA say it too.
    And no matter how many people it makes happy, that doesn’t make it canon.

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 10:58 am

  165. Thanks for the information about the finale, @JT! I knew one of these brotherly moments was comming, like I said in an earlier post. At least there’s a ray of hope… But for me, I really doubt it’ll fix the damage they have done. But I’m really looking forward to that moment.

    God, how much I love Jensen? I really love all the beautiful things he always says about the brothers relationship and about the show in general. Can we make him showrunner? LOL!

    Comment by emmanuel — May 16, 2014 @ 11:15 am

  166. @141 JT, I love your rant :D Esp the bit about Castiel: “Mighty Commander of Warrior Angels, Sole Threat to the Powerful Metatron, Wise Counsellor to Stupid Sam and Dean, God to Adoring Hosts of Minions, Self-Sacrificing Lover of Humanity–” :D

    @155 Thank you, San. That’s a really interesting interview. If you don’t mind, I’ll steal it and post it in the conversation about the clip also. What could they possibly be planning? Don’t know whether to be excited or scared now.

    Comment by Tammy — May 16, 2014 @ 11:26 am

  167. Right now I’m listening to one of my alltime favorite songs, John Lennon’s “Mind Games”. I so think it would fit right in on SPN currently.

    Comment by roxi — May 16, 2014 @ 12:09 pm

  168. @Tammy. No, not at all :D I dunno if Jared would be excited about Sam killing Dean. I mean they could go that far (saving innocents, don’t let me turn into something I’m not etc.) but I don’t think it would be easy to write that and stay true to character.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 12:17 pm

  169. Hey here are videos of Jensen and Misha:

    tvfanatic.com/videos/jensen-ackles-upfront-interview/

    tvfanatic.com/videos/misha-collins-upfronts-interview/

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 12:28 pm

  170. So we seem to get some kind of weepy brotherly hug in the finale :p.

    I wouldn’t put it past them to have it as Sam weeping over Dean’s body after having to kill him, but I hope so bad they don’t do that! In the promo there’s also a brief clip of Sam rather nervously holding a gun, so they seem to at least be teasing the idea.

    Ordinarily I’d think it would take more than an episode of buildup to get Sam from the point of “something’s wrong with Dean” to “no choice but to kill him.” But these writers…gah don’t disappoint me now!

    Comment by Jaytee — May 16, 2014 @ 12:56 pm

  171. @Jaytee. I know! I mean it would be a heartbreaking scene but I can also imagine a lot of hate that would come with that. They have teased the possibility of one brother killing the other one as recently as this season when Dean went after Gadreel but…

    Here is an interview that has people thinking Jensen is talking about Dean’s demon eyes:

    youtube.com/watch?v=WIdA3qxfmSY

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 1:55 pm

  172. @San,

    I’m still hinging hope on the idea that this finale will have “something we’ve never seen before.” Which I hope still means that no one (I care about) freaking dies.

    Comment by Jaytee — May 16, 2014 @ 2:03 pm

  173. @Jaytee. Yeah, in a way I don’t think it would be that shocking if one killed the other one or if Dean became a demon because it’s something people have speculated throughout the season. The way the actors say they are excited how the story can continue till season 10 etc. etc. I feel like there is something more surprising than that in store.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 2:22 pm

  174. @165, emmanuel, as soon as read that spoiler, I remembered your post. At the time you predicted the brotherly moment, I had my doubts because of the way the bros’ relationship has been fractured this season. It’s a darn good thing you were right, and I was wrong. I’m so sick of the tension between the boys. .

    @166, thanks, Tammy. I feel better about you-know-who since I read that spoiler. At least to me it suggests that Sam and Dean will be the focus of attention in the finale. I actually don’t mind Castiel so much when he’s kept in the background as a supporting character. But this show doesn’t need a third lead, much less some oddball angel making doe eyes at Dean.

    @171, San Summer, unless Sam picks up Dean’s jacket and weeps into it, I’m guessing Jared could only get his tears on Jensen’s shoulder if (a) the brothers hug or (b) Dean is dying or dead and Sam is holding him. If it’s….

    (a) Sam will talk Dean into dropping the blade, and Dean will toss it down the way Cain did for Colette. A brotherly hug follows.
    (b) To prevent his brother from killing someone, Sam will shoot Dean and believe he’s dead. However, Dean will revive, showing that the mark has given him Cain-like immortality.

    Can you think of another possibility? I keep remembering Dean’s voice at the beginning of the preview talking about how he can’t stop killing. His tone is heartbreaking, and, to me, it sounds like something he’d say to his brother when they confront one another.

    @172, Jaytee, I’m probably wrong, but I get the impression the “something we’ve never seen before” (like JP’s and JA’s references to the final shocking seconds) could refer to whatever happens after the big confrontation between the brothers. I’m thinking that’s the cliffhanger–not the tear-filled moment.

    Carver said the brothers will discover their bond is deeper than either of them could have suspected. I wonder if and how that could fit in with the tears on the shoulder moment.

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 3:05 pm

  175. JT, I’m hoping for the hug one. You know, the kind that says you can’t leave me, I’m your brother. I don’t feel like it would be appropriate to have one kill the other one at this point. Would Jared and Jensen really be smiling if the brothers went that far?

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 3:28 pm

  176. Here is one from Jared:

    youtube.com/watch?v=cyvdn239L-0

    I like the part where he says “We see the brothers do what everybody wants the brothers to do and sort of be there for each other”

    XD Jared saying the show has had shitty episodes. He knows the quality can be up and down.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 4:27 pm

  177. San Summer, you’re right; for one to kill the other–even if Dean can come back on his own–would be inappropriate. And depressing! I’m hoping for the hug one, too. The promo suggested that not killing makes Dean sick and weak, so maybe that will give Sam the opportunity to break through to him and convince him to drop the Blade. Of course, Dean will still have the MOC and the craving to use the Blade, so the arc can continue in S10.

    Are Jared and jensen smiling? I couldn’t get the video you referenced @171. I’ll try again later–and thank you for Jared’s comment! I wonder if the producers read posts on sites like this one and realized fans were getting pretty down about the brothers and needed a boost. I know I’m FAR more eager to see the finale than I was before.

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 4:40 pm

  178. JT, damn :/ Can you see Jared’s? They were both by IGN. Jared says “We do see it come to a head and we see both the clash in the finale but we also see the brothers do what everybody wants the brothers to do and sort of be there for each other.” That doesn’t sound like Sam kills Dean.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 4:54 pm

  179. @178, Thanks so much, San! Did you see the responses to the quotations from the Js and Collins that Tammy posted on the episode preview thread? After reading–and participating in–that discussion, I REALLY needed your happy information! You’re absolutely right. That doesn’t sound like Sam kills Dean–or like Dean kills Sam.

    Comment by JT — May 16, 2014 @ 6:48 pm

  180. @JT. Yes, I saw the quotes! I feel like maybe it has something to do with the mythology of the show. Not really solely about the brothers’ relationship. I mean if one killed the other, surely that would have to be the focus. But when something happens that the show could explore for seasons to come, it has to be more about the storytelling. That’s why I don’t think Dean going dark is gonna be the cliffhanger. There is no way he could be the big bad for season 10. Dean’s role on the show is not built for that and Jensen seems to be eager to get back to the character he knows. I think Sam and Dean will be in a bad place but something bigger than them happens.

    Comment by San Summer — May 16, 2014 @ 7:18 pm

  181. @139

    I don’t think Sam said Dean does more harm than good in terms of hunting, just in terms of Sam. The quote was “And that… is the problem. You think you’re my savior, my brother, the hero. You swoop in, and even when you mess up, you think what you’re doing is worth it because you’ve convinced yourself you’re doing more good than bad… But you’re not.”

    That is a true statement. Dean thinks that what he does ‘for’ Sam is because Sam needs it, not whether he wants it or if it’s good for him and/or others When it comes to Sam, Dean does do more harm than good. Were it not for Dean then Sam would have been dead and at peace a long time ago. Were if not for Deans need to ‘save Sam’ then Sam would have been killed a long time ago, long before the events of the Apocalypse.

    Comment by Sean — May 17, 2014 @ 12:33 am

  182. San and JT, sorry for the downer quotes. I’m really happy there’s something that shows a positive ending for the boys. I’ll try and see this clip.

    I dont’ want either dying. We’ve had SO much of that. And I really don’t think we should get one killing the other. After the sucky season and the brothers’ rift, it wont be right to have it end on that.

    Your responses are making me think as well that perhaps the big cliffhanger, game-changing ending might not be to do with the brothers’ relationship, and that they manage to heal that with a big, teary hug BEFORE the surprise ending having to do with the mythology. I don’t care what happens if they’re okay!

    I’m going to hang onto that till Tuesday!

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 12:43 am

  183. Oh and so, thank you for that! :) <3

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 12:45 am

  184. @180, San Summer, truly an excellent take on all this! Your analysis reminds me that it’s unlikely the Js see things the same way many fans do. The actors get excited about a big storyline and the action that goes with it; one or the other dying would just be dull to them. And Dean’s going dark or darker certainly wouldn’t make him a happy camper. As you say, he “seems to be eager to get back to the character he knows.”

    @181, Sean, I think you capture exactly what upsets Sam about Dean. But I guess I’m more inclined to see this issue from Dean’s point of view. His whole life has been about taking care of his little brother and saving lives. Right or wrong, it’s his nature to battle death no matter what, and I’m not sure he can change. Who knows, though? Maybe the finale will give him a different perspective on things. Some posters seem to think he’ll commit suicide. Of course, he already did that, in effect, when he refused to let Sam use his powers to try to save him from the hell hounds.

    @182, Tammy, don’t apologize. Those quotations are great! They made the finale seem all the more intriguing. Besides, the quotations didn’t depress me; the comments on them did, including my own. I completely agree with your second and third paragraphs. So well said!

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 2:48 am

  185. @184

    This is mostly the problem, and the issue that will never get due consideration while Dean holds the POV. Very often Dean taking care of his little brother has cost lives.

    And Dean doesn’t battle death. He has been more than wiling to die on many an occasion. Even in your instance about Dean dying by suicide shows him escaping or freeing himself by dying, a liberty he continues to deny his brother.

    Comment by Sean — May 17, 2014 @ 4:04 am

  186. @Tammy, JT. Did the tvfanatic interviews about Jared, Jensen and Misha work? If you can’t view IGN’s YouTube videos, maybe these will do (Jensen, Jared, Misha)

    ign.com/videos/2014/05/16/supernatural-jensen-ackles-on-season-9s-finale-and-season-10

    ign.com/videos/2014/05/16/supernatural-jared-padalecki-on-season-9s-finale-and-season-10

    ign.com/videos/2014/05/16/supernatural-misha-collins-on-season-9s-finale-and-season-10

    I’m not sure if they have time for healing though :/ But I love that there will be a hug! I was starting to think that they had so many hugs in season 8 because they were gonna skip that altogether in season 9.

    Comment by San Summer — May 17, 2014 @ 5:29 am

  187. @185, Sean, I think it’s important for the series that we get Sam’s POV as much as we get Dean’s. It’s odd that Dean’s POV should dominate–especially considering that Kripke intended that “Sam,” not “Dean,” be his leading character, as indicated by JP’s name being listed first.

    You’re right that Dean sometimes doesn’t battle death when his own life is at stake. At times, both brothers, like most of us, would rather die than live. But part of what they do is to keep one another going through those dark times. And, as hard as life is on them, there’s always someone worse off. To my mind, both brothers have to recognize how precious life is. Sam wanted to throw his life away; Kevin longed to live.

    @186 Thanks, San Summer! I suspect my computer’s the problem, but I’ll give those a try. I’m looking forward to a hug, too–and it does seem there will be one of some kind. As for the healing, well, I don’t expect that, even next season, the brothers will have much to say about their differences. From what I’ve seen, most family members don’t do that; they just pick up the pieces and go on. Maybe that’s partly what love is about.

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 5:56 am

  188. @187. I don’t think Sam wanted to throw his life away. He wanted to close of gates of hell and thus save people. The price of doing that was his life. The price all hunters must be prepared to pay in order to do what they do is their lives.

    Comment by Sean — May 17, 2014 @ 6:14 am

  189. Thanks San. I definitely have a problem with youtube, so the links are very useful.I’ll try them today.

    I am DYING for a hug and the rift to be over. As you said, JT, with family, you dont expect perfection and no differences. You just accept and love each other. Maybe this is where the ‘unconditional love’ bit comes in. Just with the acceptance.

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 6:18 am

  190. @JT, Tammy. I agree! The brothers continue on and they love each other even when other people would have left a long time ago.

    I hope that at least they’ll resolve the conflict about Dean thinking Sam would not save him from vampires etc.

    I’m also interested to see Sam cry. He doesn’t cry as often as Dean but then when he does, he usually _really_ cries.

    Can you see this CHCH promo for the finale?

    spoilertv.com/2014/05/supernatural-episode-923-do-you-believe_17.html

    Comment by San Summer — May 17, 2014 @ 7:15 am

  191. Thanks! Watched the videos, very enjoyable viewing. All except Cas and the storyline continuing into next season ;) Loved J2.

    Where’s the bit about tears on Dean’s shoulder? I didn’t hear that in this clip. Can anyone give the link, if not a problem?

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 7:17 am

  192. @ San. Oh oh just saw the latest one, thanks ever so much!

    Is that Sam that Dean threw across the room? I wish Tuesday would just come already.

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 7:36 am

  193. @Tammy. I haven’t seen a video of the tears comment either. Hopefully it’s out there!

    It seems that in that CHCH promo right after Sam and Dean’s confrontation at the bunker, they cut to a scene where Dean is the one flying through the air because of Metatron. The clothes seem to be the same ones Dean is wearing at the bunker.

    Weird that it seems like Metatron’s story can continue till season 10. But maybe whatever Metatron does will have far-reaching consequences and that’s why the actors talk about him.

    There are also tweets coming from London. Sam doesn’t want Dean to die or to let him die etc. Jared said in that video “We do see it come to a head and we see both the clash in the finale” so wouldn’t it indicate some sort of Cain/Abel style of confrontation? But maybe Sam then gets through to Dean, he cries etc.?

    Comment by San Summer — May 17, 2014 @ 8:08 am

  194. Just had a wild thought!

    What if the big game-changer ending is a sudden ‘reset’ of the SPN universe by Metatron (or God..?), including the brothers’ lives. Would Metatron have the power to do that somehow? Or something causes it, kinda like a Star Trek movie some years previously. Literally anything could happen.

    Oh well, just sharing ideas. I’m not sure I like this one though. :)

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 11:14 am

  195. @193- It shows Dean getting angry and throwing Sam through the air.

    Comment by roxi — May 17, 2014 @ 11:24 am

  196. My thanks for the CHCH promo, too, San! The wait is getting maddening. Okay, here’s a cheesy scenario. How about we try out different ones and see if any of them can pull all the elements together neatly? This one won’t, but what the heck?

    Sam and Dean confront each other; they fight. Dean knocks Sam down. Blade in hand, he steps towards his brother. Sam shouts at Dean, trying desperately to get through to him.

    Finally he does. Dean stops; it dawns on him who Sam is, who he is. He tells Sam he can’t stop; he has to kill. He tries to control his arm. But the influence of the blade is powerful. It’s driving Dean to kill his brother. Dean struggles, fighting the force of the blade, but losing. His hand is raising the Blade in the air. Weeping now, pleading as his father once did, he yells, “Shoot me! I’m begging you, Sammy! Shoot me! Now!”

    Sam aims the gun. Dean is struggling with all his strength against the power of the Blade, begging for his brother to fire before it’s too late. But the gun shakes in Sam’s hand; he can’t do it. He’d rather die. He looks up at the Blade as it arches upward to swoop down.

    Castiel appears, snatches the gun, and fires at Dean who falls to the floor. Sam rushes to Dean, grabs him up in his arms. Dean looks at his brother, smiles slightly, whispers, “Bitch” and closes his eyes. Sam cries out, holds Dean and drenches JA’s nice jacket with tears.

    Then, Sam hears his name and startles back. Dean’s eyes are open. The eyes are black. With the force of his mind, “Dean” pitches Sam across the room and gets to his feet. He exchanges malevolent smiles with Castiel.

    Out of the shadows (don’t ask me how) come Crowley and Metatron. The King of Hell and the two angels look down at Sam as Dean raises the blade and brings it down with a scythe-like swish. Sam screams. Black screen.

    (Of course, we find out in S10 that “Dean” didn’t really kill Sam; the real Dean inside him was able to break through long enough to deflect DemonDean’s aim. And “Castiel” was actually the same shapeshifter who, pretending to be the real angel, talked Tessa and the others into killing in Castiel’s name. Crowley and Metatron have joined forces to take over heaven, earth, and hell with the help of an army of Hell Knights MOC Dean will raise. Except for the real Castiel, who’ll eventually reappear, Sam is on his own. By the way, it would be nice if Sam said, “Jerk” to Dean’s “Bitch,” but I somehow doubt we’ll ever hear that sweet exchange again.)

    Other scenarios, please????

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 11:33 am

  197. @193, San Summer, I didn’t see a video of Dean talking about the tears. He said that in an interview in Entertainment Weekly. I think it was online yesterday. It’s entitled, “Supernatural’s finale: Jensen Ackles teases the brother moment with a tear-stained shoulder.”

    @194, I’d love that finale, Tammy–far better than my own melodramatic one. I really don’t what to see Dean go Demon Dean, but I can’t figure out why JA said he couldn’t believe “they” would “go there.” A reset like you describe would really be surprising!

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 11:50 am

  198. Ha ha JT, mine was just a wild idea, but yours actually pulls the various elements together and makes a coherent story.

    I think that’s the one we’re going to see, but I’m still not keen on DemonDean… Can we fit in, after Sam tries to shoot him but fails, he rushes Dean and tries to disarm him physically, then a ‘ MoC magically disappearing with the power of Sam’s love’ thing, and the brothers stand together,both human again, ready to fight the evil guys without the first blade, but Metatron has a surprise for them. He………

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 12:56 pm

  199. Oh and insert ‘weepy, emotional hug’ after Mark disappears. :)

    Comment by Tammy — May 17, 2014 @ 12:58 pm

  200. @198, that’s GREAT, Tammy! A happy ending for once! You know, when JA commented that he didn’t believe they would go there, maybe he wasn’t speaking of something bad. Why is the episode called, “Do You Believe in Miracles?” I guess it probably is; after all, “Stairway to Heaven” was nothing but a snide joke. Anyway, what would the miracle be? If it’s “written” by Metatron, it’s bound to be nasty. I wonder why he kept saying he knew the ending.

    Maybe your idea about the reset Metatron universe is right on target!

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 1:02 pm

  201. Sorry…I meant it “I guess it probably is something bad.” Tessa said, “There is no God.” Certainly, that’s the message we’ve been hearing from SN for years. But I think it would be interesting if Tessa turned out to be wrong and a miracle happened to put Metatron in his place and help the boys along.

    Comment by JT — May 17, 2014 @ 1:07 pm

  202. @It appears that I was wrong. The clip does show Sam fighting Dean for the blade, but then it spices to Dean going for Metatron, and Metatron actually throws Dean against the wall.
    Forget about guns and knives, these guys should have died a long time ago from head injuries from being throw against stuff so much.Then I believe this is also one of the fandom’s running jokes, like Sam’s flowing locks, Dean’s single manly tear, and them sitting against the car bedside a body of water talking about their feelings.

    Comment by roxi — May 18, 2014 @ 2:59 am

  203. @200- It’s an interesting theory, but how would that work with SPN being all about fighting evil occult forces as well as the brother’s sucky tragic lives?
    A sunny, happy SPN where it’s like WIAWSNB, would completely change the show into something else entirely.
    Oh I know! Metatron having read all of Chuck’s books puts them back into the alternate reality they were in in IATL, and they STILL think it sucks!And will come to realize it’s not who they are and find a way out. Bonus: both boys looked especially beautiful in that episode, and the sight of HUGE Jared in a tight shirt sitting in the tiny cubicle? PRICELESS.

    Comment by roxi — May 18, 2014 @ 3:12 am

  204. @198-But Colette’s love didn’t make the mark go away on Cain, and Cain is not likely to take it back I should think, they aren’t gonna try to give it to someone else and put that burden on them and besides, the recipient has to be both a natural killer and therefore worthy, and also has to be willing. I was also under the impression that having that mark kept Cain from being able to be killed, so if he took it back, Dean can’t kill him like he made him promise to do. So at present, to me, it looks like Dean is screwed.
    Maybe Sam is crying because he can’t stop what’s happening to Dean and they both know it, so they’re bonding over this tragic circumstance?
    Remember: The mark turned Cain INTO a demon. He wasn’t possessed by one. Meaning possibly that somehow his DNA was significantly altered.Sure, he didn’t look all that monstrous when we met him, but then this was centuries AFTER the influence of Colette’s love, and abstaining for that long from the blade and killing, and in order for him to keep from murdering, he had to go off the grid completely and cut off all contact with the outside world and humans.
    So if all this is the case, then Dean can’t be exorcised, like Sam was(a few dozen times)because he’s not possessed. This is something that’s changing HIM, from the inside out.
    But then, since we know that all of us here have better scenarios than Carver and Co. usually do,
    more than likely none of these things will happen.

    Comment by roxi — May 18, 2014 @ 3:30 am

  205. @roxi. You’re right, of course. But it’s fun to play around with ‘what could happen’, as I’m nearly sure we’re gonna be disappointed with what ACTUALLY happens.

    I really really hope not though, and who knows, just perhaps, the writers have a real stroke of genius and manage to pull off a brilliant season ending which somehow ties in all the elements, brings the brothers together and doesn’t turn Dean into a demon. All the while being super exciting with a cliffhanger which keeps us anxiously AND HAPPILY waiting for the next season to start.

    Comment by Tammy — May 18, 2014 @ 3:58 am

  206. Is that too much to ask :p

    Comment by Tammy — May 18, 2014 @ 5:07 am

  207. @204, roxi, I think you’re right about the mark. As matters stand now, it probably won’t go away, and Dean will likely continue to crave the blade. However, it seems the trigger for turning Cain demonic was fratricide. So, as long as Dean doesn’t kill Sam or another innocent person, he may never turn into Demon Dean–even if he goes on to use the weapon in S10.

    If that’s where the writers are going, it makes perfect sense to me. A weapon of any sort can’t turn a person demonic. Only evil rooted in the soul can do that. Once Cain tasted the power of the MOC/blade by killing his brother, he surrendered completely to the urgings of the Lucifer’s weapon, glorying in its power, killing thousands and raising an army of Hell Knights who brought chaos and darkness upon the earth.

    From what Crowley says in the preview, the more Dean uses the blade, the more he’ll want and even physically need to use it. And, it seems, the more he uses it, the greater the chances he’ll kill anybody and everybody who gets in his way, including innocent people.

    The MOC/Blade is like a nuclear trigger and bomb. So, as Sam warned Dean, the blade must be used VERY SPARINGLY, reserved for nuking only those evil entities who can’t possibly be destroyed in any other way– entities like Metatron, Crowley, and the hell knight, Abaddon.

    No doubt, Dean will have to use the blade in S10. However, if the blade remains locked away between those kills, Dean will have to fight his craving to use it now and then, but between times its power over him will subside–just as it did for Cain once he threw the blade away.

    Anyhow, as I see it, the brotherly moment in the finale is absolutely essential for saving Dean and all those innocent people he might kill with the blade. Even though SN’s God never appears in the series, traditional belief has it that God is love, while Lucifer is anger and hate. It was the devil’s influence that turned brother against brother and tempted Cain to kill Abel. And it’s Lucifer’s power that infuses the MOC/Blade.

    For two years now, Carver has been creating animosity between Sam and Dean. I suspect it was all to bring us to this finale’s climatic question: will the love between Sam and Dean be strong enough to overcome the power of the MOC/blade? Or, put another way, will the power of God overcome the power of Satan?

    Carver may tease us in “Do You Believe in Miracles?,” holding back on the answer until S10. I hope not, though. I think it would be better that we know the boys are together–even though, before the screen goes black, we see the terrible consequences they could face for choosing love over hate.

    Comment by JT — May 18, 2014 @ 7:56 am

  208. @205, Tammy–yes!

    Comment by JT — May 18, 2014 @ 8:03 am

  209. @207-I don’t think, or very much hope NOT, that Dean will kill Sam, but I did see a couple of pics, I don’t remember where and have no links, that showed one side of Dean’s face with a sort of demonic light starting to spread, and out one of his eyes. So it does look like Dean is undergoing some sort of physical transformation.

    Comment by roxi — May 18, 2014 @ 9:18 am

  210. @209 roxi, uh oh. Unsettling about those pictures! But, like you, I want to hope for the best. First, if Dean does go demonic, he doesn’t have to stay that way–anymore than Cain did. And I think a Demon Dean could be very problematic for the series. He’d be separated from Sam, which viewers don’t like, probably lose his heroic stature, which viewers don’t like, and possibly have all sorts of supernatural powers, which I doubt viewers would like
    either. As JA indicated in the “Entertainment Weekly” article, he wants the real Dean back. He’s found this season hard because he’s been forced to play the MOC Dean. I think most fans want our funny, down-to-earth, loving bro and hero back, too–ASAP.

    As you know, the writer of the article, quoting JA, said, “expect one of those Winchester brother-bonding moments that will ‘probably’ make you cry, ‘considering [Jared's] tears were all over my shoulder.’”

    Jensen also said of Dean, “It’s not so much the place that he’s in as opposed to the issue that’s surrounding him, and that I think is the shocking part.”

    I’ve no idea how that all that will play out, of course, but I’ll take a guess:

    Fearing he’ll kill Sam, Dean begs his brother to shoot him. Sam forces himself to do so, then hugs his brother, soaking his shoulder with his tears. Then, the baddies show up. They’re going to kill Sam. Dean opens his eyes, picks up the blade, and goes wild, stabbing, hacking off heads. When he finishes, he raises his blood soaked face; a demonic light is starting to spread on one side of his face and out of his eye.

    So, if something like that happens, Dean won’t have gone truly demonic (he didn’t kill an innocent person), but we know he’s changed physically, and he could become Demon Dean if Sam can’t find a way to help him. Anyway, another possibility that’ll turn out to be dead wrong!

    Comment by JT — May 18, 2014 @ 10:00 am

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